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-   -   Player absent on scorsheet (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97004-player-absent-scorsheet.html)

gazou Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:53pm

Player absent on scorsheet
 
This is a FIBA question: In the fourth quarter, a foul is called on A5. While informing the score table, the referee is made aware by the scorer that the name and number of A5 has not been written on the scoresheet. A5 has been playing or been present on the bench the whole game. The opposing coach demand that A5 not be allowed to play for the rest of the game. How would you proceed in the two following situation?
a) The scorer forgot to include the name on the scoresheet
B) The coach of A5 admits that he forgot to write the name on the scoresheet
Car article 48 of the FIBA rules be applied here when it says "any recording error by the scorer must be corrected before the referee signs the scoresheet at the end of the game? In other words, we add the name and A5 can play?

deecee Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:00pm

I can speak to our rules.

a) if it were a scorer mistake and the name was given but it just wasn't transcribed, then enter the name and no penalty
b) if the coach messed up then its a team T (i believe). Enter the name and number and move on.

There is no penalty that we not allow a player to play unless they have been disqualified (either committing to many fouls or received 2 or more T's, or their equipment, like metal brace, has been ruled unsafe)

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Mon Jan 13, 2014 08:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by gazou (Post 917988)
This is a FIBA question: In the fourth quarter, a foul is called on A5. While informing the score table, the referee is made aware by the scorer that the name and number of A5 has not been written on the scoresheet. A5 has been playing or been present on the bench the whole game. The opposing coach demand that A5 not be allowed to play for the rest of the game. How would you proceed in the two following situation?
a) The scorer forgot to include the name on the scoresheet
B) The coach of A5 admits that he forgot to write the name on the scoresheet
Car article 48 of the FIBA rules be applied here when it says "any recording error by the scorer must be corrected before the referee signs the scoresheet at the end of the game? In other words, we add the name and A5 can play?


In (a), this is a mistake by the Scorer and A5 should be allowed to play. In (b), this is a mistake by A-HC and A5 cannot be allowed to play.

MTD, Sr.

frezer11 Mon Jan 13, 2014 02:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 918004)
In (a), this is a mistake by the Scorer and A5 should be allowed to play. In (b), this is a mistake by A-HC and A5 cannot be allowed to play.

MTD, Sr.

Can't be allowed to play? First off, he's already in the game, but even if he wasn't, isn't this a classic book error by A's head coach, add the name with a T? What's your reasoning for not allowing him to play?

Question for all on this one, how can you determine with certainty if the HC made a mistake or not? If he says, "I just gave them my book," or something similar, how do you know he didn't change his book later? Is it just faith in humanity?? Also, if it cannot be determined with certainty either way, what is the default, T or play on?

tjones1 Mon Jan 13, 2014 03:05pm

I have the HCs check the official book before the game. If he does this and agrees then any mistakes are on him unless the official scorer told me they were at fault.

Nikki Mon Jan 13, 2014 03:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by frezer11 (Post 918088)
Can't be allowed to play? First off, he's already in the game, but even if he wasn't, isn't this a classic book error by A's head coach, add the name with a T? What's your reasoning for not allowing him to play?

Question for all on this one, how can you determine with certainty if the HC made a mistake or not? If he says, "I just gave them my book," or something similar, how do you know he didn't change his book later? Is it just faith in humanity?? Also, if it cannot be determined with certainty either way, what is the default, T or play on?

The OP was asking for a FIBA ruling.


Quote:

Originally Posted by tjones1 (Post 918089)
I have the HCs check the official book before the game. If he does this and agrees then any mistakes are on him unless the official scorer told me they were at fault.

If he supplied the official scorer with the correct information it does not matter that you had him check the book.

tjones1 Mon Jan 13, 2014 03:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikki (Post 918093)
If he supplied the official scorer with the correct information it does not matter that you had him check the book.

True; however, typically I don't know where the information came from...therefore, I let them take a peek to try to avoid an AT.

Nikki Mon Jan 13, 2014 03:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjones1 (Post 918095)
True; however, typically I don't know where the information came from...therefore, I let them take a peek to try to avoid an AT.

What I am saying is you can't penalize the coach with an AT if he supplied the correct information to the official scorer, regardless of whether you had them look at it, sign it, or whatever. Usually it's pretty easy to figure out who the error falls on.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Mon Jan 13, 2014 09:34pm

I was a USA Basketball Referee from 1993 to 2005 (I still try to stay up-to-date on the FIBA Rules), and from my reading of the Rules and Casebook Plays, there is not provision for adding a player's name to the Roster after the time limits set in the Rules, except for Scorer Error.

I am sure that we have some members that are more versed in FIBA Rules that can add to this discussion.

MTD, Sr.

NICK Tue Jan 14, 2014 01:51am

If the player is not on the scoresheet, player is not allowed to play. Plain and simple. That is the reason the coaches are given the scoresheet 10 minutes before the game starts, to mark his starting 5 and initial the scoresheet that coach is happy and everything is fine and ready to go.

Adam Tue Jan 14, 2014 02:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by NICK (Post 918204)
If the player is not on the scoresheet, player is not allowed to play. Plain and simple. That is the reason the coaches are given the scoresheet 10 minutes before the game starts, to mark his starting 5 and initial the scoresheet that coach is happy and everything is fine and ready to go.

You mean you can't add players after the ten minute mark in fiba?


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