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-   -   Where are newer college officials needed? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/96906-where-newer-college-officials-needed.html)

BigT Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:16pm
Where are newer college officials needed?
 
I know a couple of very young officials who are extremely good college officials. Where they are at there there are few colleges and there are plenty of officials with just a few extra years of experience and they are getting very few games. My gut tells me that other parts of the county there maybe more schools then there are talented college officials. If you were young had 2-3 years of college experience but are not getting many games and you could uproot and move where would you tell these guys to go and how would you get in front of those conference arbiters to be given a shot?

Thanks in advance!

PS Here there are only about 6-7 colleges within a hour. In one part of the country there are 500% more colleges within a hour.

bob jenkins Tue Dec 31, 2013 01:12pm
What level college?

Matt S. Tue Dec 31, 2013 01:29pm
New England
 
I just relocated to New England this year. Picked up 13 D-3 games along with a decent high school slate. All of my games are within 50 miles of my house.

Bear in mind I have been working for 15 years, only two years college...but I moved from a smaller, Midwestern city that also only had a couple of colleges within an hour's drive.

Also, do they work men's or women's? And just because they're 'good' in one area doesn't mean they are 'good' in another. I've worked in seven different states over those 15 years...trust me, officiating proficiency is all relative.

BigT Tue Dec 31, 2013 02:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 916412)
What level college?
Mostly Juco and one got a Div 1 game this year.

These young kids in their early to late 20's have only refereed a few years but are doing serious varsity and have been picked up quickly for Juco.

Anyone know much about California or KY area for need of newer college officials?

Raymond Tue Dec 31, 2013 08:48pm
North Carolina is a good place for young officials.

Anywhere from DC to Boston will put you in the middle of a lot of conferences.

BigT Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:01am
Thanks BadNews.

Nevadaref Wed Jan 01, 2014 04:42pm
CA has so many schools to cover that they are willing to take anyone who shows an interest and is a reasonable official. I know of two refs who are currently working JC games at the age of 21. I know of two other situations in which refs got picked up for JC before even getting promoted to varsity games in their HS chapters.

SCalScoreKeeper Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:45am
Nevada-which HS units do the officials belong to who are doing JUCO before HS varsity?

chseagle Thu Jan 02, 2014 01:16am
Here in my neck of the woods, there's about 6-7 Colleges/universities within 3 hours of one another, plus 5 JUCOs within the same radius.

Unsure how many high schools as there's that many.

Raymond Thu Jan 02, 2014 08:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper (Post 916587)
Nevada-which HS units do the officials belong to who are doing JUCO before HS varsity?
That can happen anywhere. I had a buddy who was pick up in D3 after one year of HS ball.

BigT Thu Jan 02, 2014 09:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 916564)
CA has so many schools to cover that they are willing to take anyone who shows an interest and is a reasonable official. I know of two refs who are currently working JC games at the age of 21. I know of two other situations in which refs got picked up for JC before even getting promoted to varsity games in their HS chapters.
Thanks Nevadaref

BigT Thu Jan 02, 2014 09:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 916589)
Here in my neck of the woods, there's about 6-7 Colleges/universities within 3 hours of one another, plus 5 JUCOs within the same radius.

Unsure how many high schools as there's that many.
Do they need college officials?

Raymond Thu Jan 02, 2014 09:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT (Post 916605)
Do they need college officials?
chseagle is a high school scorekeeper, he wouldn't know.

And what do you mean by "do they need college officials"? If they are part of a conference is very, very, very likely that the conference has a supervisor of officials who hires refs for the league.

Usually it's only those small, independent non-NCAA, non-NAIA schools that self-hire officials just for their own games.

Bottomline though, is if these guys are good (and I'm not doubting they are), they need to get out to some camps outside of Utah, and they will be noticed and start getting on conference supervisors' radars.

chseagle Thu Jan 02, 2014 01:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 916607)
chseagle is a high school scorekeeper, he wouldn't know.

And what do you mean by "do they need college officials"? If they are part of a conference is very, very, very likely that the conference has a supervisor of officials who hires refs for the league.

Usually it's only those small, independent non-NCAA, non-NAIA schools that self-hire officials just for their own games.

Bottomline though, is if these guys are good (and I'm not doubting they are), they need to get out to some camps outside of Utah, and they will be noticed and start getting on conference supervisors' radars.
There's almost always likely a need to hire new officials as the veterans retire.

Just because I'm not truly wearing stripes, doesn't mean the information I provide is any less knowledgeable.

Raymond Thu Jan 02, 2014 02:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 916639)
There's almost always likely a need to hire new officials as the veterans retire.

Just because I'm not truly wearing stripes, doesn't mean the information I provide is any less knowledgeable.
In this case you would not have any knowledge of the situation. Veteran officials retire all the time, all over the country, including where BigT lives.

Are you saying you are privy to the college basketball officiating scene? Do you know any college conference supervisors?

BigT Thu Jan 02, 2014 02:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 916607)
chseagle is a high school scorekeeper, he wouldn't know.

And what do you mean by "do they need college officials"? If they are part of a conference is very, very, very likely that the conference has a supervisor of officials who hires refs for the league.

Usually it's only those small, independent non-NCAA, non-NAIA schools that self-hire officials just for their own games.

Bottomline though, is if these guys are good (and I'm not doubting they are), they need to get out to some camps outside of Utah, and they will be noticed and start getting on conference supervisors' radars.
A few of them have been going to camps outside of Utah and are getting noticed. They are looking to move so I thought I would put some feelers out to any parts of the country that had a nice concentration of schools and a need for more officials. I appreciate all the advice and hope it keeps coming.

Andy Thu Jan 02, 2014 03:38pm
As has been mentioned...Southern California.

Many, many, JUCO, D3, D2, NAIA, etc schools in the area.
However, there are also a lot of officials trying to move up through the ranks so the competiton for those spots on conference rosters is going to be tougher.

I have also heard that there are many areas in the midwest with several small colleges in close proximity that may fit what your associates are looking for.

rockyroad Thu Jan 02, 2014 05:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 916589)
Here in my neck of the woods, there's about 6-7 Colleges/universities within 3 hours of one another, plus 5 JUCOs within the same radius.

Unsure how many high schools as there's that many.
Since the supervisors of the conferences that those colleges are in (including the juco ones) already have officials from Utah on their rosters, and Big T says these young guns have been to camps and are getting known...my guess would be that the supervisors out here already know who these people from Utah are.

chseagle Thu Jan 02, 2014 06:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 916676)
Since the supervisors of the conferences that those colleges are in (including the juco ones) already have officials from Utah on their rosters, and Big T says these young guns have been to camps and are getting known...my guess would be that the supervisors out here already know who these people from Utah are.
It's one of those situations that you never know until you try.

The numbers I listed are just from memory & distance estimations.

Raymond Thu Jan 02, 2014 07:43pm
My caveat would be not uproot their lives to chase officiating jobs. The opportunities will come.

chseagle, you have to understand, we officials do stuff away from the games you see in order to advance our careers. Those schools in your area, do you know the supervisors to contact, or when/where the camps are? That's info BigT would need.

AremRed Thu Jan 02, 2014 08:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 916589)
Here in my neck of the woods, there's about 6-7 Colleges/universities within 3 hours of one another, plus 5 JUCOs within the same radius.

Unsure how many high schools as there's that many.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 916607)
chseagle is a high school scorekeeper, he wouldn't know.
I think he knows how many colleges and high schools are in his area. That is information that was asked for in the OP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 916639)
Just because I'm not truly wearing stripes, doesn't mean the information I provide is any less knowledgeable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 916647)
Are you saying you are privy to the college basketball officiating scene? Do you know any college conference supervisors?
He doesn't have to be an official in order to give info of the number of colleges and high schools in his area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 916685)
The numbers I listed are just from memory & distance estimations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 916695)
chseagle, you have to understand, we officials do stuff away from the games you see in order to advance our careers. Those schools in your area, do you know the supervisors to contact, or when/where the camps are? That's info BigT would need.
Not necessarily. Big T asked for info on which parts of the country have high densities of colleges. Despite being just a scorekeeper, I think that is information chseagle is certainly qualified to provide. Telling him he "has to understand" is just patronizing.

chseagle Thu Jan 02, 2014 08:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 916695)
My caveat would be not uproot their lives to chase officiating jobs. The opportunities will come.

chseagle, you have to understand, we officials do stuff away from the games you see in order to advance our careers. Those schools in your area, do you know the supervisors to contact, or when/where the camps are? That's info BigT would need.
As with any occupation, continual training for one.

I know I do not have all the information being requested, but at least it's a start.

KJUmp Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:43pm
Helpful resource....
 
BigT.....

Go to the site PhillyRef.com

Use the Tabs on top of the homepage. Tons of current information on college coordinators and conferences..... both NCAAM & NCAAW. DI, DII, DIII, NAIA, and JUCO. All conference member school info. cross referenced by state.

There's a national listing of over 250 officiating camps.....many geared specifically for officials looking to move into or up the collegiate ranks.

Raymond Fri Jan 03, 2014 08:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 916697)
I think he knows how many colleges and high schools are in his area. That is information that was asked for in the OP.

He doesn't have to be an official in order to give info of the number of colleges and high schools in his area.

Not necessarily. Big T asked for info on which parts of the country have high densities of colleges. Despite being just a scorekeeper, I think that is information chseagle is certainly qualified to provide. Telling him he "has to understand" is just patronizing.
BigT asked what areas need college officials, especially younger officials. Anybody can Google how many colleges are in a specific area. Knowing what areas are in need of college officials, what areas are prone to hiring younger officials, and what schools use conference supervisors as opposed to self-hiring is a totally different ballgame.

I've been on this board for a while, and I know chseagles's background in regards to officiating. To presume you know better is patronizing to me. And to constantly play the roll of moderator is arrogant on your part. I suggest more rule book study, and less monitoring of other posters.

ocreferee Fri Jan 03, 2014 09:51am
BigT-

From what I have gathered in listening to guys who have wanted to chase the idea of officiating as a full time job (NBA guys especially) they should consider moving somewhere where there is quality year round baskeetball. In his court club interview Monty McCutchen talks about moving from Texas to Los Angeles in order to pursue both school (a Masters at UCLA) and basketball (eventually in CBA and then the NBA). This year's two new NBA hires (Ben Taylor and Steve Anderson) both live in Orlando. Ben moved to Orlando after completing college in Tennessee. I have heard that a couple of other NBA guys have lived in Atlanta for a time as young officials in order to be in a "hot bed" area.

Hope this helps.
Chris

Raymond Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocreferee (Post 916752)
BigT-

From what I have gathered in listening to guys who have wanted to chase the idea of officiating as a full time job (NBA guys especially) they should consider moving somewhere where there is quality year round baskeetball. In his court club interview Monty McCutchen talks about moving from Texas to Los Angeles in order to pursue both school (a Masters at UCLA) and basketball (eventually in CBA and then the NBA). This year's two new NBA hires (Ben Taylor and Steve Anderson) both live in Orlando. Ben moved to Orlando after completing college in Tennessee. I have heard that a couple of other NBA guys have lived in Atlanta for a time as young officials in order to be in a "hot bed" area.

Hope this helps.
Chris
Right now, North Carolina and Virginia seem to be hotbeds for the D-League. NC has Joe Forte supervisiong a D1 & D2 conference. Virginia is home to George Tolliver and Donnie Vaden.

I believe Dr. Jake Bell likes guys who have NBA aspirations; he supervises the SEC and the A-Sun, which fits in with the Atlanta/Orlando locations. Dr. Bell is close with JB Caldwell, who supervises a few lower division conferences in Florida. Atlanta is a holdover from the days of John Guthrie being a college supervisor. He was a really close friend of Ronnie Nunn, from what I understand. A high number of NBA officials went through Guthrie's conferences before becoming NBA officials.

Also, the Philly area seems to be heating up. I noticed a few newer officials from that area on the D-League roster. Joey Crawford has an instructional camp which uses only NBA refs for observers.

KJUmp Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 916759)
Right now, North Carolina and Virginia seem to be hotbeds for the D-League. NC has Joe Forte supervisiong a D1(Big South) & D2 (Carolinas) conference. Virginia is home to George Tolliver and Donnie Vaden.

I believe Dr. Jake Bell likes guys who have NBA aspirations; he supervises the SEC and the A-Sun, which fits in with the Atlanta/Orlando locations. Dr. Bell is close with JB Caldwell, who supervises a few lower division conferences (DII Gulf Sun&Sunshine State) in Florida. Atlanta is a holdover from the days of John Guthrie being a college supervisor. He was a really close friend of Ronnie Nunn, from what I understand. A high number of NBA officials went through Guthrie's conferences before becoming NBA officials.

Also, the Philly area seems to be heating up. I noticed a few newer officials from that area on the D-League roster. Joey Crawford has an instructional camp which uses only NBA refs for observers.
Added Forte's and Caldwell's conferences.

BigT Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy (Post 916658)
As has been mentioned...Southern California.

Many, many, JUCO, D3, D2, NAIA, etc schools in the area.
However, there are also a lot of officials trying to move up through the ranks so the competiton for those spots on conference rosters is going to be tougher.

I have also heard that there are many areas in the midwest with several small colleges in close proximity that may fit what your associates are looking for.
Thanks Andy!

BigT Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJUmp (Post 916720)
BigT.....

Go to the site PhillyRef.com

Use the Tabs on top of the homepage. Tons of current information on college coordinators and conferences..... both NCAAM & NCAAW. DI, DII, DIII, NAIA, and JUCO. All conference member school info. cross referenced by state.

There's a national listing of over 250 officiating camps.....many geared specifically for officials looking to move into or up the collegiate ranks.
Thanks a ton!

BigT Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocreferee (Post 916752)
BigT-

From what I have gathered in listening to guys who have wanted to chase the idea of officiating as a full time job (NBA guys especially) they should consider moving somewhere where there is quality year round baskeetball. In his court club interview Monty McCutchen talks about moving from Texas to Los Angeles in order to pursue both school (a Masters at UCLA) and basketball (eventually in CBA and then the NBA). This year's two new NBA hires (Ben Taylor and Steve Anderson) both live in Orlando. Ben moved to Orlando after completing college in Tennessee. I have heard that a couple of other NBA guys have lived in Atlanta for a time as young officials in order to be in a "hot bed" area.

Hope this helps.
Chris
This idea has come up before. If you have great year round basketball in a densely populated area it is going to feed the HS/Colleges and provide a lot of good ball to improve your skills on. Thanks Chris.

Raymond Fri Jan 03, 2014 03:39pm
BTW Big T, there is a forum member whose 22 or 23 year old son is in the D-League (and a few college conferences) and whose 20 year old son is in at least one D3 conference.

I'm sure he can give you some insight as to what a young official should/could do to advance their career.

billy42785 Thu Jan 09, 2014 09:30pm
NC. Big south and CC conference are great conf. To call in. And you learn from the best at the camps. Good talent level for D1 and D2 basketball.

Raymond Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by billy42785 (Post 917565)
NC. Big south and CC conference are great conf. To call in. And you learn from the best at the camps. Good talent level for D1 and D2 basketball.
Each one of my posts would apply to those conferences. Unfortunately none of them apply to me directly. :o

The friend I referenced getting picked up in D3 so quickly, was hired by Joe the following season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 916475)
North Carolina is a good place for young officials.

Anywhere from DC to Boston will put you in the middle of a lot of conferences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 916599)
That can happen anywhere. I had a buddy who was picked up in D3 after one year of HS ball.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 916812)
BTW Big T, there is a forum member whose 22 or 23 year old son is in the D-League (and a few college conferences) and whose 20 year old son is in at least one D3 conference.

I'm sure he can give you some insight as to what a young official should/could do to advance their career.


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