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-   -   Florida Gulf Coast vs S Florida - 0.3 sec shot (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/96809-florida-gulf-coast-vs-s-florida-0-3-sec-shot.html)

dahoopref Wed Dec 18, 2013 04:49pm

Florida Gulf Coast vs S Florida - 0.3 sec shot
 
This is about as close as it gets!

Good job by the crew to remind both teams that a field goal would only count as long as the ball is tipped by FGCU.

Enjoy.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/u_s1nJH8aPo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

grunewar Wed Dec 18, 2013 05:07pm

Thanks for posting. Was hoping someone would.

According to ESPN, the player guarding the inbound pass was 7'3"!

bwburke94 Wed Dec 18, 2013 05:19pm

Art. 18. In any period, when the game clock displays 10ths of seconds and play is to be resumed by a throw-in or a free throw when 3/10 (.3) of a second or less remains on the game clock, a player may not gain possession of the ball and try for a field goal. Such player can only score a field goal by means of a tap of a pass or of a missed free throw.

APG Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwburke94 (Post 914970)
Art. 18. In any period, when the game clock displays 10ths of seconds and play is to be resumed by a throw-in or a free throw when 3/10 (.3) of a second or less remains on the game clock, a player may not gain possession of the ball and try for a field goal. Such player can only score a field goal by means of a tap of a pass or of a missed free throw.

Same in NFHS..NBA one can catch and shoot with .3 on the clock...with .2 or less, only a tap.

johnny d Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahoopref (Post 914965)
This is about as close as it gets!

Nothing close about this play at all. Rule is clear. Player clearly caught the ball. Game over. What is close?

Camron Rust Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:49pm

Pretty simple call by rule.

Of course, it could be argued that it is possible to catch and release such a shot in less than 0.3 seconds even if it isn't possible to do so on a normal jumpshot. But that would be a discussion for another day.

I just want to know why the official was over at the monitor after the shot was waived off. If the clock started on 0.3, there really isn't anything to be reviewed. I don't think that reviewing whether a player caught the ball or tapped the ball is a reviewable decision.

JetMetFan Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 915035)
I just want to know why the official was over at the monitor after the shot was waived of. If the clock started on 0.3, there really isn't anything to be reviewed. I don't think that reviewing whether a player caught the ball or tapped the ball is a reviewable decision.

It’s mandatory under both NCAA codes. Since they made a call on the court – the 3/10 ruling – in a game-ending situation that determined the outcome of the contest the monitor review rule kicked in. Yeah, I know, by rule it’s not a try because the 3/10s rule exists but the monitor part is on the books (NCAA 11-3-1a.1)

Camron Rust Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 915039)
It’s mandatory under both NCAA codes. Since they made a call on the court – the 3/10 ruling – in a game-ending situation that determined the outcome of the contest the monitor review rule kicked in. Yeah, I know, by rule it’s not a try because the 3/10s rule exists but the monitor part is on the books (NCAA 11-3-1a.1)

I know that. But isn't that review is to see if it was released before time expired. In this case, it can't be, by rule. The video can't change that. Are they allowed to change the ruling of catch vs. tap?

APG Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:45am

Interesting enough...under NBA rules, they are not allowed to go to the monitor to review a made basket with .2 or .1 on the game or shot clock...even with a made basket with zero's on the clock being a replay trigger.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 915035)
Pretty simple call by rule.

Of course, it could be argued that it is possible to catch and release such a shot in less than 0.3 seconds even if it isn't possible to do so on a normal jumpshot. But that would be a discussion for another day.

I just want to know why the official was over at the monitor after the shot was waived of. If the clock started on 0.3, there really isn't anything to be reviewed. I don't think that reviewing whether a player caught the ball or tapped the ball is a reviewable decision.


Camron:

I agree with you. This is a good example of a long 0.3 seconds on the clock (0.39 seconds) as opposed to a short 0.3 seconds on the clock (0.31 seconds).

MTD, Sr.

JugglingReferee Thu Dec 19, 2013 01:31am

Superb video for training purposes.

JetMetFan Thu Dec 19, 2013 06:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 915042)
I know that. But isn't that review is to see if it was released before time expired. In this case, it can't be, by rule. The video can't change that. Are they allowed to change the ruling of catch vs. tap?

Not that I'm aware of. I think it's just one of those editorial things that'll be cleared up. I can't remember a situation exactly like this in the few years monitor use has been mandatory on game-ending shots.

HokiePaul Thu Dec 19, 2013 08:58am

Just curious ... it seems to be the correct call, but isn't the call on the last second shot supposed to be the official opposite the table (either T or C)? Is it different under NCAA rules?

Maybe this is based on association/assignor preference rather than rule, but my understanding is that the L doesn't make the last second shot call (although all officials are expected to have an opinion on these plays in case it needs to be discussed).

AremRed Thu Dec 19, 2013 09:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by HokiePaul (Post 915063)
Just curious ... it seems to be the correct call, but isn't the call on the last second shot supposed to be the official opposite the table (either T or C)? Is it different under NCAA rules?

Maybe this is based on association/assignor preference rather than rule, but my understanding is that the L doesn't make the last second shot call (although all officials are expected to have an opinion on these plays in case it needs to be discussed).

In a normal last-shot situation you would be correct. In this case however waving off the shot is not dependant on the judgement of the responsible official, but rather rules knowledge of all the officials. The Lead had the best look at what kind of shot FGCU was taking, and the "responsible" official may not have had the best look. Thus, I think it is fine for the Lead to wave off by rule.

bob jenkins Thu Dec 19, 2013 09:22am

The crew also might change things depending on the specifics. So, for example, if there were .4 left -- the T might have it on a short-pass-long-shot play, the C between the circles and the L on a long-pass-short-shot play (as in the OP)

Raymond Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 915068)
In a normal last-shot situation you would be correct. In this case however waving off the shot is not dependant on the judgement of the responsible official, but rather rules knowledge of all the officials. The Lead had the best look at what kind of shot FGCU was taking, and the "responsible" official may not have had the best look. Thus, I think it is fine for the Lead to wave off by rule.

Exactly...it's possible they discussed this in pre-game or during the last time-out.

BryanV21 Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:20pm

Under NFHS rules any official can waive-off a shot, but only the center/trail official opposite the table can count it.

So in this case the lead official is well within his rights to waive-off the shot.

bob jenkins Thu Dec 19, 2013 03:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 915108)
Under NFHS rules any official can waive-off a shot, but only the center/trail official opposite the table can count it.

Reference? I've not heard that before (and I'm pretty sure it's not "under NFHS rules.." ;) )

BryanV21 Thu Dec 19, 2013 03:55pm

I can't find that terminology in the Officials Manual, but it is said to us in meetings quite often. The manual only says that the trail/center official opposite the table is responsible for the decision, and his/her partner(s) can help them if necessary.

Of course, if there is a disagreement among the officials, the referee is to make the final decision.

johnny d Thu Dec 19, 2013 04:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 915108)
Under NFHS rules any official can waive-off a shot, but only the center/trail official opposite the table can count it.


This isn't correct, and whoever is telling you this is delusional. If this statement were true, it would promote/allow 2 or more different officials signaling on the same play at the same time. Theoretically, the center/trail opposite could be counting the basket, while one or both of the other officials could be waving it off. The mechanic on this is simple and straightforward. The official opposite makes the call whether or not to count the field goal, unless the officials on the court decide to do it differently beforehand. Only 1 official should have a signal on this play.

As far as the play in the OP, it doesn't matter who or how many officials wave this shot off. It has nothing to do with the clock. They are simply enforcing the rule that the player cannot catch the ball and score a basket when there is 0.3 or less on the clock. The only time judgment would come into play on this is if there is a debate as to whether or not the player did anything other than tap the ball.

A Pennsylvania Coach Thu Dec 19, 2013 05:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 915046)
Camron:

I agree with you. This is a good example of a long 0.3 seconds on the clock (0.30 seconds) as opposed to a short 0.3 seconds on the clock (0.21 seconds).

MTD, Sr.

Fixed your post

Scrapper1 Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahoopref (Post 914965)

Good job by the crew to remind both teams that a field goal would only count as long as the ball is tipped by FGCU.

1) I don't see where the officials are reminding the teams of this. Is there a spot in the video where you can see this? :confused:

2) When are you going to remind them? You're not going into the time-out huddle, are you?

Scrapper1 Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:21pm

Any chance somebody could rip this video and email it to me as a file? I have the "Youtube Downloader" extention in my Chrome browser, but it doesn't work anymore.

Or at least let me know how I can rip it myself? Thanks.

referee99 Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:38pm

I use
 
Wondershare AllMyTube (Mac)


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