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-   -   Dating a relative of a coach. (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/96757-dating-relative-coach.html)

Camron Rust Wed Dec 11, 2013 07:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 913925)
So essentially, it's a pre-season game.

Last year, I had a JV-G preseason game at my son's high school, his senior year. My partner lived in town. The varsity crew consisted of a teacher at that school, the assistant principal of that school, and an assistant superintendent of the school district. That's fine, as it's pre-season.

No way that would -- or should -- happen in a regular season or postseason game. And I'd block the team on Arbiter if I had such a relationship as JRut mentions. There are plenty of other schools. You can sacrifice one.

I doubt Jeff's game is really a preseason game. That term, along with "not regular season" is often misused. Most, if not all, states have started their regular seasons. Tournaments that occur in the middle of the season are still part of the regular season, they're just an out-of-conference game. My guess is that any team that loses in that tournament but wins the rest of their games wouldn't be considered undefeated at the end of the season by any legitimate standings/rankings.

Your game does sound like preseason, however, as it sounds like it was before the real games started and probably didn't count.

The question I ask....does it go on their records and does it affect their rankings in any polls? If so, the game matters. It may be non-conference or pre-conference, but not pre-season no matter how frequently people use the term.

Take the NFL or NBA for example....preseason games don't get counted in anything....but non-conference games do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 913932)
I was really trying to see if others were in a similar situation. That does not mean I needed input to make a final decision.

Peace
I don't think it would be a big deal to keep this game...the relationship is not close enough for it to matter in my opinion. In most towns, many officials could probably find a close friend who had a cousin on staff at some some school.

That said, your approach to the question here is more than puzzling.

JRutledge Wed Dec 11, 2013 07:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 913919)
Perception does not matter. Fans are going to think they got screwed regardless. Their only point of view is through their team-colored glasses. They don't need a reason or excuse to think you cheated them. Their opinion or perception has no meaning whatsoever.

The opposing coach. If he has dealt with you as an official and if he is professional, he is going to know better. Even if he isn't professional and thinks this is a problem why should that matter to any official. Let him put you on his scratch list. BFD!

Your assignor. Again, if he knows you and has any trust in your ability as an official, he will easily be able to defend you.

Finally, where are you going to draw the line? It is his girlfriend's cousin. Is the line her second cousin, third cousin, his babysitter's brother's best friend's dad? There are other coaches out there that JRut knows better than this coach and has had longer relationships with. Even though he has no known relationship to, should he stop working their games too? We have coaches that come to our referee association meetings. They have been known to go out afterwards and have a few cokes with some of the officials. Maybe I should stop working their games as well.

It is ridiculous. If you give people the chance to come up with reasons to disqualify you they will find a way. The choice is simple. If you know you can be objective, keep the game. If you have concerns, give it back. Don't let simple minded people whose opinion matters little make the choice for you because of some perceived wrong.
I totally agree with you on many levels. I have had post season games with a team from the town I live. And I have had them in every sport too. And every time someone knows I am from that town or live down the street from this school. I would have had another school down the street if it was not for a personal conflict this past November. I would understand if this was my wife or we had kids going to that school, but that is not the case. And she has other family members and those family members have children. I am sure there is going to be other situations that will come up if life happens.

Peace

Rooster Wed Dec 11, 2013 07:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 913907)
Who is this someone, fans, opposing coach, assignor, players?
Ask Ed Rush... A lot of people, even here, know what he meant by what he was saying, yet it cost him and a lot of PAC-12 officials, dearly.

JRutledge Wed Dec 11, 2013 07:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooster (Post 913944)
Ask Ed Rush... A lot of people, even here, know what he meant by what he was saying, yet it cost him and a lot of PAC-12 officials, dearly.
With all due respect that was not about a conflict of interest or having a relative attending one of the schools.

Peace

Ed Maeder Wed Dec 11, 2013 08:00pm
Wow if we turned in all the games like this we wouldn't work. We are all related in Alaska. It gets cold in the winter and there is a lot of inbreeding going on. LOL;)

Eastshire Thu Dec 12, 2013 09:17am
I don't see cousin as close enough of a relative to matter. Prospective cousin-in-law isn't even on my radar.

Scrapper1 Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 913919)
Perception does not matter.
Disagree. Even if it doesn't affect you on the court, you can bet that it could turn into a major headache for your assignor. Sure you only have to call the game, but who gets the phone calls afterward?

I agree with others who have said to inform the assignor of the situation and let him/her decide. I know that I can be impartial, and I know that I can handle the coach while I'm on the court; but if something odd happens and the coach learns or knows of the situation, I've given my assignor a mess that he has to deal with.

Adam Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:54am
Recently we had a situation in a regular season football game. Small town pool of officials, limited numbers and they were maxed out on games. There was a conflict on the game, the assigner knew and did nothing. The game ended up close, with playoff implications. The press got wind of the conflict, and the state had to address it.

Personally, even something so remote, I'd tell the assigner and let him decide. If he thinks it's nothing, so be it; but it's his choice.

Raymond Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 913915)
I will just say this. I am not giving back the assignment. Not happening. This was not a regular season game. This was a shootout-tournament of some kind where the teams were not determined until recently. I am not giving back the assignment. I might change, move around, but I am not giving back the assignment. Not happening!!!

Peace
My only question, is there a chance you and the coach might be socializing together in public and any large gatherings (cook-out/holiday party/happy hour)?

If so, I would ask the assignor to move me to a different game in the shoot-out.

rockyroad Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 914022)

Personally, even something so remote, I'd tell the assigner and let him decide. If he thinks it's nothing, so be it; but it's his choice.
Agreed. Let the assignor know...let him/her make the call. That's just the smart thing to do. It is a gamble otherwise. If I don't inform him, then maybe nothing happens and all is well. Then again, if something blows up and he takes hieat for it...we all know poop flows downhill.

And as far as the "perception does not matter" comment, that's just a ridiculous thing to say. If that is true, why do officials not grow beards? Why do we keep our shoes shiny and clean? Of course perception matters.

JRutledge Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 914052)
Agreed. Let the assignor know...let him/her make the call. That's just the smart thing to do. It is a gamble otherwise. If I don't inform him, then maybe nothing happens and all is well. Then again, if something blows up and he takes hieat for it...we all know poop flows downhill.

And as far as the "perception does not matter" comment, that's just a ridiculous thing to say. If that is true, why do officials not grow beards? Why do we keep our shoes shiny and clean? Of course perception matters.
Officials do not grow beards because we work in a culture that does not allow them most of the time. But there are officials at the high school level that have beards and work games on a regular basis. And not everyone shines shoes because that standard has not been upheld with the lack of all-leather shoes being sold as they once used to be. And not everyone right or wrong has the same perception of what family members and the closeness of that family member and if it would cause a problem. So yes perception matters, but that doe not mean everyone perception matters to everyone. And the answers in many cases show not everyone would be concerned or they would have other problems if they worried about some of these issues.

Peace

ballgame99 Thu Dec 12, 2013 02:28pm
Pics or GTFO! And dating the cousin of a coach is too far removed IMO. You can always claim ignorance. If it's your wife's cousin, it is a maybe. Its not like you are auditing his financial statements, or are on the jury of his murder trial.

asdf Thu Dec 12, 2013 06:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 913895)
They are also rather close and talk to each other often.
Related and rather close. Tell that to the opposing coach as you shake his hand prior to the game. That will set the tone for a pleasant evening.

Giving this one back..... There are plenty games to work, just not this one...

Eastshire Fri Dec 13, 2013 07:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 914052)
If that is true, why do officials not grow beards?
Let me just jump up on this soap box. Officials do, in fact, grow beards. I've worn a beard for 13 of my 15 years as an official. It has in no way affected my ability to get the games I want. It's a non-issue to everyone who isn't folically challenged.

JRutledge Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 914158)
Let me just jump up on this soap box. Officials do, in fact, grow beards. I've worn a beard for 13 of my 15 years as an official. It has in no way affected my ability to get the games I want. It's a non-issue to everyone who isn't folically challenged.
There is no question they do, but not everyone allows that kind of look whether it is right or wrong. And I think sometimes things like this issue or what is a conflict is often local.

Peace


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