Video request Duke/Arizona (Clip Added)
 

1:50 of the second half. Somebody want to tell me he had not "completed the gather" before he lifted the pivot (right foot) and returned it to the floor. 360 spin that starts with one or both feet on the floor, and ends with both feet on the floor 5 feet away. I don't have to see the play. It's impossible to do this without traveling.

Any worse than the missed travel calls in the Georgia HS video?

Worse than some.......as bad as any.

And it gets more common with each passing year. I can't get my partners to call it in HS games…probably because D1 guys let it go on a consistent basis.

This has been a meeting emphasis around here, so it gets called. Every time? No, but it does get called.

Here's the play...

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-EGqEJTLqd8?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Travel

What's the odds that one person says it isn't?

Travel

I call those illegal spin moves travels more than most officials I work with, but I still miss them sometimes. I work both HS and college schedules. So are we going to blame D1 officials for me missing it when I do? :rolleyes:

No matter who you are, if you missed this play, I blame you. This is easy to see from any angle, from any distance. I knew he was going to travel before he traveled. Somebody find me a couple of spin moves by a player attacking the basket where a travel is correctly called and I'll drop the assertion that they are being deliberately ignored........maybe.

Does this include HS games where they are missed regularly, but are not replayed on ESPN?

Yes, it does. Why wouldn't it? At any level, there is no excuse for the travel in the OP to be missed. Do you disagree with that?

I believe it was my BV assignor who told us a few years ago that it's extremely difficult for players to do a spin move like this one legally, especially in HS. That doesn't mean I call travels on all of them but at least the antenna are up whenever I see one.

Why not? Can you think of a better scapegoat? :p

All he had to do was release the pass before the right foot returned to the floor and it would've been perfectly legal. And that's the rub -- you have to know the right's the pivot and have to see it come back to the floor.

I call it when I see it. But I have to know which foot is the pivot foot (as always) and have to see it come back to the floor. I've heard other officials say, "that spin move is a travel 100% of the time, so I just call it" and that's the justification. That's worse than missing the travel, IMO.

These Kids Are So Damn Quick ...
 

When asked about the most difficult calls in basketball, many officials will point to the block/charge. Others will talk about game management, and interactions with coaches. The answer is easy for me, traveling. Sometimes it's difficult to spot, and keep track of, the pivot foot, especially when the official is on the run. There are no easy words of wisdom, or reminders, to help one make the correct travel, or no travel, call, other than to just keep track of the pivot foot. It's difficult to do properly, but that's why we get paid the big bucks, to use our good judgment to do, properly, what we are trained to do.

Note: Big bucks here in The Constitution State is $91.32. Eat your heart out guys.

True, but he didn't. It was not even close.



Calling one that's not there is worse than missing one. I think practically everyone agrees on that. But is calling one incorrectly as bad as missing ten? I don't think so, and I think the ratio of ten to one may be conservative.
Somebody find/post an incorrectly called travel in an NCAA game.

Peer Pressure Means Nothing To Me ...
 

Count me in with everyone. How's that for taking a hard stand?

If you can't describe the reason for the call, then you shouldn't make it in the first place.

Justification ???
 

How about, "That spin move is a travel 100% of the time, so I just call it."?

Good reason for the call? That'll sure satisfy a questioning player, coach, athletic director, or assignment commissioner. Right?

Note: We're not using a blue font for sarcasm on this Forum, are we?

LOL. I sure as hell hope I have a better explanation than that.

How often do we explain a traveling call?

Not often at all. But I'm not going to make a call and hope the coach doesn't ask for an explanation. Because if it is the rare instance where he/she wants to know what I saw, and I respond with "I just call it", then I could be in for a world of hurt (so to speak).

BTW, I get asked by observers about calls like that all the time. So even if the coach doesn't ask, others might.

The point is that a traveling call is relatively black and white. He illegally moved his pivot foot in excess of the prescribed limits. In the OP if I see this player pick up his dribble at the free throw line while executing a pivot and wind up under the basket with both feet on the floor, I don't have to know exactly where and when each foot landed to know he traveled. Any discussion of this play with a coach would pretty much be a "No, he didn't!" "Yes, he did." kind of thing, and I'm not likely to get into that.

Honestly, I may miss this call, let alone be able to describe it. I just wouldn't feel comfortable saying anything other than "when he picked up his dribble his right foot was the pivot foot, which he then lifted and put back down on the floor before the pass".

I don't mean to say I'd look down on you for saying it that way, it just wouldn't feel definitive enough for others to accept it.

And I'm saying, in a case like this, you don't even have to know which foot was the pivot (you probably will) to call a travel. If he's on one or both feet holding the ball at the free throw line and winds up on both feet under the basket, and it obviously was not a jump stop, he traveled. If a coach wants to ask which foot was the pivot in this case, it doesn't deserve an answer.

Dumbfounded ...
 

When coaches ask me about a travel, which is seldom, I usually respond by identifying the pivot foot, right, or left, and then mutter something about, "in excess of the prescribed limit". The fact that I know which foot is the pivot foot, combined with some "rulespeak" mumbo jumbo, usually impresses them, and they shut up. Most coaches are expecting a response with some mention of steps taken, and when I don't respond in such a manner, it confuses them and takes them off their game. Coaches can easily get flustered, and lose their train of thought. Speechless coaches are so cute.

Most conversations I have about traveling involve the phrase "he gets two steps" at some point.

This play is the exact reason you need to know. It's not a travel until the right foot comes down. What if he dishes or releases a shot just before that? You're good enough to know the difference without knowing which foot is the pivot?

Quite frankly, I'm not all that worked up about any of this. Not a single person in the gym is screaming for a travel at this point and missing this is a minor thing in my world.

If he starts out at the free throw line with a foot on the floor and goes to the basket with a one, two count, when the second foot hits the floor it's a travel. If there's traffic in between or for whatever reason you can't tell left from right, it doesn't matter.

They see this play called a travel so seldom, many probably don't think it is a travel.

He not only picks up his pivot foot once, but twice, without shooting or passing. This is an easy travel.

I don't understand why we make this so difficult: Pivot foot up + pivot foot down = travel.

That said, the first time I had a move like this was two years ago at camp. I was the trail, and was so dumbfounded by it, I froze in silence. The camp director was right there to rightly give me an earful.

It's not difficult. But, unlike what JAR said, we still have to identify the pivot foot and recognize it coming back down. We can't use items like, "he took too many steps" or "he covered too much distance."

I agree. But I guess whatever works. Just get the call right. *shrugs*

Player A1 stands holding the ball with both feet on the floor. I'm on his left side. He leans toward me, faking a pass, and may or may not have lifted his right foot briefly before returning it to his original position. B1 bites on the fake and lunges for a steal. B1 now lifts his left foot, steps forward, and puts it down. He then follows with the right foot, lifts it, steps forward, and puts it down before shooting a 3. Are you telling me I can't call this a travel because I don't know which foot was the pivot in this situation?

Regardless of whether or not A1 lifted his right foot while faking the pass, he proceeds to lift and put down both of his feet before shooting. Therefore you know it was a travel, and can explain the call to the coach.

If the player would only have traveled had he lifted his right foot during the fake pass, and you don't know if he did, then you shouldn't make the call. You can only call what you see. If you don't see him lift the foot, then you shouldn't assume it.

I'm not suggesting that you assume anything. I was just giving an example which shows that a travel can be called without knowing which foot was the pivot.

When a player leaves point A and ends up at point B with one foot followed by the other, this is a travel, whether you saw which foot was first or not. This is not something that happens a lot, but, in varying degrees it happens. If you only call a travel when you can exactly retrace every step, you probably aren't calling enough.

An earful about what? How he doesn't call it in his games either?

JAR is right here. You don't have to know which was the pivot foot if both feet end up in new locations. Sure, one of them was and it would be nice to know but it is a travel not matter which one was when both feet have moved to a new spot.

There is, however, a window of time after the first foot comes down and before the second foot comes down where it could be a travel and you must know which was the pivot in order to know. But, again, once the 2nd foot comes down, it doesn't really matter. You could declare either one as the pivot and still be right.

The most common place I see this is around the 3pt arc....player catches the ball on the floor and inside the arc and steps back to take a jump shot from behind the arc and didn't do a jump stop. There is no possible way to get there without a dribble without traveling.

Then you need to do some serious work on your communication skills. It's quite simple:

"Coach, he lifted and replaced both feet, so I can call a travel for either."

Your point is the one I'm trying to make here. If you don't identify the pivot foot, you could very well call traveling on the play in the video before that right foot comes down. I want to know and want to be able to explain that well. I'd rather miss 5 close travels than call one that isn't there.

The play you mention at the end of your post -- I've seen that called many times on a player when he's already taking that step as he's catching the ball. Sure, it's traveling if he catches the ball and THEN moves both feet to square up to shoot, but that's not always what's happening there. If the first foot is already moving to the line, it becomes the pivot foot and the other foot can join it when the player squares up.

Just reinforces that it's important to know when the player gathers/controls and which foot's the pivot.

What makes you so certain that he doesn't call it?

He's been to enough camps to know?

He knows for a fact that this specific camp director, not knowing a name or anything, doesn't practice what he preaches? That's one hell of a clairvoyant talent.

Sarcasm alert.

I have better odds that people like yourself will say you would have gotten this without a doubt better than the guys that actually were on the game. It is a travel and it is a tough get at full speed. I have less problem with this travel missed than plays that I see missed that are much easier at the high school level. But I digress.

Peace

I don't understand what any missed call at the high school level has to do with this. And the guys at the junior high level might miss worse calls than that. At the guy at the rec game who had never been on the court before was worse than any of them.

???

Because YOU act like games on ESPN are the only gyms where spin move travels are missed.

I just watched a HS game on local cable where an obvious travel on a spin move was missed. What's your point bringing this up every week?

Does anyone think we may see a POE on plays like this from the NFHS in the near future?

Traveling was a POE at least once in the not so distant past. It said something like, paraphrasing now, "The traveling rule has not changed, so call it, dammit!"

My point is that there are too many of them for me to believe that they are all being missed. It is my idea that this is somehow done by design in the name of promoting more offense. Deliberately ignored? Maybe not, but the screws have really been tightened.

"Don't call a travel unless you can reenact a close up view of each foot in your mind."

I find the finished product disturbing. Are there just as many missed in high school games? Couldn't say, but I think not. And, hey, aren't the guys on tv supposed to be better then me?

Because everytime these plays are discussed, you and other people here that see a travel in every move act like no one else but you is calling them correctly. And we have people here that also suggest all the time that they call a totally different game at the JH level than at the HS level as well. I know JH or younger kids travel without trying and I doubt most are calling every technical travel with every move a kid makes just when they have the ball. I have just watched enough high school games of mine and others and seen missed travels and really see them on spin moves which IMO are very hard to see in transition like this play in question.

Peace

I can and I could say there are just as many if not more. The HS officials I have seen usually call travels that are not there at all. In other words, they call travels on legal jump stops or call any funny movement they have not seen as travels (Euro step). I see it all the time during the summer camps and trainings we have and often have to inform the officials in question what the rule that takes place in their play or situation. At least at the college level I rarely see travels called that completely were not there, but that does not mean they do not call phantom travels either, they just tend to pass on things they do not see clearly IMO.

And no the guys on TV are not necessarily better than anyone. They just got a break or tried to work that level where you and others have not. I will say in general college officials are better from their training and evaluation process, where HS officials work their game and unless they make an effort rarely see tape of their games. I just know when I have seen myself on tape, I see missed plays and certainly travels we as a crew did not see or missed all together.

Peace