VID Request duke vs Kansas (Video added)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

The dribble ending does not necessarily mean he's holding the ball. Normally, they're at the same time, and I think they are on this video, but it's not always the case.

Edit: I was answering to the wrong video. After watching this video, I can't tell when he actually starts holding the ball. I don't think he starts holding it until he's in the air, as it looks like he bumps it into the air while trying to grab it, but doesn't actually grab it immediately.

Either way, since I can't tell, I wouldn't make this call.

When he scoops the hand underneath, that is when he is holding it.. There is no gap between dribbling and holding unless they lose control of the ball. If there comes a point where you are not going to let them put down another dribble without it being an illegal dribble or a carry, they're holding it. It doesn't take two hands to hold the ball as some would have you believe. The "hold" begins at the same moment the dribble ends, even if it is just one hand.

Looking at it another way...if they fouled someone at that very moment, would you have a PC foul? If you answer yes, you must then be saying they are dribbling or holding the ball. If the they had ended the dribble, then they were, be it being the only option left, holding the ball.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

When he scoops the hand underneath, that is when he is holding it.. There is no gap between dribbling and holding unless they lose control of the ball. If there comes a point where you are not going to let them put down another dribble without it being an illegal dribble or a carry, they're holding it. It doesn't take two hands to hold the ball as some would have you believe. The "hold" begins at the same moment the dribble ends, even if it is just one hand.

Looking at it another way...if they fouled someone at that very moment, would you have a PC foul? If you answer yes, you must then be saying they are dribbling or holding the ball. If the they had ended the dribble, then they were, be it being the only option left, holding the ball.

I do not think anyone is suggesting that you have to have two hands on the ball to end a dribble. We can call a carry with just one hand under the ball. But it appears the dribble never really ends until he is jumping in the air. It is also hard to tell as the ball is facing away from the camera angle for the most part, but the ball does not appear to be under his hands until he is already jumped. You will disagree, but it is certainly not "obvious" as some want to make this play out to be. It is very close. And if it is very close, I am giving the player the benefit of the doubt.

Peace

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

it is when they dribble stops and that occurs when he grabs the ball.

The bolded part of this statement is not accurate.

Art. 4. The dribble ends when:
a. The dribbler catches or carries/palms the ball by allowing it to come to rest
in one or both hands

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnny d

The bolded part of this statement is not accurate.

Art. 4. The dribble ends when:
a. The dribbler catches or carries/palms the ball by allowing it to come to rest
in one or both hands

That is really not anything different then what I am saying. And it is really in question of the ball came to rest in his hands until he was in the air.

Peace

[Adam]

When I paused this at the right moment, I see his right hand free of the ball after he jumped. While the second hand isn't necessary, I don't honestly think he was holding the ball in this case until he got the 2nd hand there. I just don't see enough control with the left hand in this play to warrant a call.

Now I need a Dos Equis.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

When I paused this at the right moment, I see his right hand free of the ball after he jumped. While the second hand isn't necessary, I don't honestly think he was holding the ball in this case until he got the 2nd hand there. I just don't see enough control with the left hand in this play to warrant a call.

Now I need a Dos Equis.

Yes, but how did he get the ball up there? It didn't just bounce directly from the last dribble. He caught it with his left hand to lift it up and across his body.

The dribble ends by catching the ball even by scooping the ball in one hand and that event is the moment, by rule, that the pivot is also established if a foot is on the floor.

If there is ever a moment when a subsequent dribble would be considered a carry, you have just decided the player caught the ball. Would you have let that player dribble again as he brought the ball across his body before his right hand got to the ball?

Holding the ball is simply not grasping the ball firmly with two hands.