The key word in the post is HER. That's why it could be common. :D

Clear As A Bell ...
 

The NFHS is pretty clear on what type of foul they want charged here.

2012-13 Points Of Emphasis
b. Examples of illegal contact above the shoulders and resulting penalties.
2. An elbow in movement but not excessive should be an intentional foul.

I know this was printed in the points of emphasis section, but is it repeated in the actual rules anywhere (specifically in the definition of each type of foul in Rule 4 or in Rule 10)? I've looked without success in locating it.

And the clarification we were given was that "movement" was in reference to the rest of the body.

If I move my body, my elbows come along for free...that is not elbow movement. If I move my elbows without the rest of the body, that is elbow movement.

Seems to me then you would never need #2, only stationary elbow and excessive elbow movement. Is this true or am I missing something?

Four different levels of elbow contact.
1. Incidental, no foul. (B1 hits A1's geographically stationary elbow with his head).
2. Common foul. (A1 steps into his throw or pivot, hitting B1 in the head. No movement of the elbows beyond what the body is doing).
3. Intentional foul. (Elbows flying, or player chinning up and pivoting in a way that puts other players at risk. I consider this foul when it's an action that could have warranted an elbow violation call).
4. Flagrant. (intentional or reckless elbows).

Deciding which is typically judgment. The NFHS wanted to find a way to codify the judgment, but only managed to increase confusion and widen the area of interpretation.

Yes. See what Adam said. His comments are just about perfect...maybe even perfect! ;)

Still Confused In Connecticut ...
 

... and they certainly did a great job of confusing officials, and a great job of widening the area of interpretation. It's a double win for the NFHS.

And, as in the backcourt/throwin/team control exception, how will rookies learn these swinging elbow fouls, of various degrees, once the Point of Emphasis disappears into the mist?

What is the difference in the pivot in #2 and #3? Is it #3 is excessive movement with the elbows moving faster than body but not directly seeking out to make contact?

While part of me can't believe we are still discussing this the other part of me is curious how my new pool will call it compared to my last pool. Find out tomorrow night!

This elbow is moving faster than his body, in my opinion it's intentional.

Agree, he was moving elbow from one side of his torso to the other and raising from low to high while also turning. Intentional Foul.

It would have been different if he had raised them before turning and didn't bring them across his body...and didn't lead with them.

Had a play last night I was trying to get some clarification on and I don't have my rule book handy. We had a rebounder come down and start swinging elbows. No contact was made with any of them. My partner calls a technical for excessive elbows. I asked if there was contact made and his reply was that it didn't matter. I let him take the call and he got a bunch of crap for it.

After the game we were discussing it and I told him I thought it there was swinging and no contact that it was a violation, and if there was contact the penalty would depend on the severity of the contact. Plus I told him I thought it was an intentional foul rather than a technical. He was certain he had called it right and that if there WERE any contact it was flagrant and auto ejection.

This thread discusses the various degrees of contact and how they should be penalized but it doesn't really discuss if no contact is made. Am I thinking right that elbows with no contact is just a violation? Bonus points if you know the rules citation. ;)

I keep my rule book in my bag just for such locker room discussions.

NFHS 9-13-1

A player shall not excessively swing his/her arms(s) or elbow(s), even without contacting an opponent.

There's nothing in Rule 10 under Player Technicals regarding elbows. If your partner thought A1 was trying to intimidate B1 by swinging his elbows he could possibly consider 10-3-6c (Baiting or taunting) but other than that the menu is limited regarding live-ball elbow contact: Nothing, common/PC/TC, IF or FF. Since there wasn't any contact the violation more than likely would have been the proper call.

Make a polite suggestion should you see him again that he either read his rule book or pay a visit to us ;)


And yeah, this has been known to help as well.