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-   -   pivot after jump stop (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/96357-pivot-after-jump-stop.html)

jump stop Thu Oct 24, 2013 02:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by potato (Post 908548)
If the person hasn't established pivot & jumps & lands on 1 foot 1st, then that foot is the pivot foot, he can land his non-pivot foot.

One question, the rule says you can jump off your pivot foot and land on both feet simultaneously & no pivot foot allowed, so if instead of landing on both feet, the player landed on 1 of his feet, i would assume it's a travel if he landed on his pivot foot, and no travel if he landed on his non-pivot foot?
Watch this video, I hope this clears up some misconceptions


Potato : The rule does not say "you can jump off o pivot foot" it says if you "catch the ball while dribbling or moving with one foot on floor , you may jump off this foot and land simultaneously on two" <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/29Nvnsy3Ivw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

potato Fri Oct 25, 2013 01:24am
if you catch the ball with one foot on the floor, doesn't it already mean you have established a pivot on that foot, thus you are jumping off the pivot foot?



Quote:
Originally Posted by jump stop (Post 908692)
Watch this video, I hope this clears up some misconceptions


Potato : The rule does not say "you can jump off o pivot foot" it says if you "catch the ball while dribbling or moving with one foot on floor , you may jump off this foot and land simultaneously on two" <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/29Nvnsy3Ivw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Sharpshooternes Fri Oct 25, 2013 01:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jump stop (Post 908692)
Potato : The rule does not say "you can jump off o pivot foot" it says if you "catch the ball while dribbling or moving with one foot on floor , you may jump off this foot and land simultaneously on two" <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/29Nvnsy3Ivw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Quote:
Originally Posted by potato (Post 908751)
if you catch the ball with one foot on the floor, doesn't it already mean you have established a pivot on that foot, thus you are jumping off the pivot foot?
I think that his point was that the rule does not say you can jump off of your pivot foot but that you can jump off of the foot on the floor and land simultaneously. There actually can be no pivot foot on a true jump stop as 2. On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch is the pivot. Not Your situation

3. On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case. This is the situation and there actually can not be a pivot foot The foot on the ground is just that and when you jump and land with both feet simultaneously no foot can be pivot.

APG Fri Oct 25, 2013 01:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by potato (Post 908751)
if you catch the ball with one foot on the floor, doesn't it already mean you have established a pivot on that foot, thus you are jumping off the pivot foot?
No...because the player's subsequent actions will determine whether the player has a pivot foot or not. If he steps with the other foot, then the foot that was initially on the floor is the pivot foot. Conversely, if he jumps off the foot on the floor and land simultaneously on both feet, then the player will not have a pivot foot.

potato Fri Oct 25, 2013 01:37am
Now there's 2 jumpstops:

1.Catch the ball in the air after the jump & lands both feet simultaneously = pivot allowed.

2.Catch the ball with one foot on the ground & jumps off that foot & land on both feet = pivot not allowed.

so isn't the 2nd case considered pivot foot established before the jump?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 908612)
For a person to not have established a pivot foot, s/he is either in the air (and can't jump), or has both feet on the floor (and any jump is illegal), or is on one foot (and then you can't land on 1 foot first).



The rule does NOT say you can jump off your pivot foot and land on both feet. You can jump if the one foot is not yet the pivot foot, but you must either land with both feet simultaneously (neither foot can be the pivot) or land on the other foot alone (which makes the first foot the pivot foot). This is nothing different from the steps in a lay-up. If the (now-determined) pivot foot touches the floor, it's travelling.




Awkward <> illegal.

APG Fri Oct 25, 2013 01:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by potato (Post 908756)

2.Catch the ball with one foot on the ground & jumps off that foot & land on both feet = pivot not allowed.

so isn't the 2nd case considered pivot foot established before the jump?
Quote:
Originally Posted by APG (Post 908755)
No...because the player's subsequent actions will determine whether the player has a pivot foot or not. If he steps with the other foot, then the foot that was initially on the floor is the pivot foot. Conversely, if he jumps off the foot on the floor and land simultaneously on both feet, then the player will not have a pivot foot.
If you catch the ball or end the dribble with a foot on the floor, you can't determine if that foot will be the pivot foot until you see what happens next.

potato Fri Oct 25, 2013 01:42am
alright i guess if you catch the ball with 1 foot already on the floor that foot is not treated as a pivot if you took another step with the other foot.

but in real life it happens so quick it's pretty much impossible to tell unless you replayed the video.

i really couldn't tell it from the 1st playbacks and only notice it on the slowmo replay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jump stop (Post 908692)
Watch this video, I hope this clears up some misconceptions

Sharpshooternes Fri Oct 25, 2013 01:42am
Potato, if you read the rule carefully the jump stop doesn't ever have, nor can their be a pivot foot.
A player, who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop, and establish a pivot foot as follows:

b. If one foot is on the floor:

1. It is the pivot when the other foot touches in a step.

2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.

just another ref Fri Oct 25, 2013 01:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by potato (Post 908756)
2.Catch the ball with one foot on the ground & jumps off that foot & land on both feet = pivot not allowed.

so isn't the 2nd case considered pivot foot established before the jump?

If there is no pivot allowed, there is no pivot foot.

bob jenkins Fri Oct 25, 2013 07:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by potato (Post 908751)
if you catch the ball with one foot on the floor, doesn't it already mean you have established a pivot on that foot, thus you are jumping off the pivot foot?
No.


Do you own a rule book? (serious question)

Raymond Fri Oct 25, 2013 08:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 908781)
No.


Do you own a rule book? (serious question)
He is not an official.

bob jenkins Fri Oct 25, 2013 08:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 908783)
He is not an official.
Fair enough. Then his questions make more sense (although I wish he'd not try to parse the words).

potato -- When a player catches the ball with one foot on the floor, that foot is NOT YET the pivot foot. It BECOMES the pivot foot when the other foot touches the floor. Or, if the player jumps off that (initial) foot and lands on both feet, then the player is not allowed a pivot foot.

potato Fri Oct 25, 2013 08:52am
OK i guess i need to open another question just to clarify on this instead of riding off this topic.


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