Offensive Foul after Shooting Foul?
If A goes for a shot and B blocks & commits a foul, while still airborne, A pushes B away and makes the shot, would A be called for a foul or game stops when the defense commits a foul and a free throw awarded, or would A be awarded a free throw and A takes a foul and ball starts as if A commited a foul, but what if A missed the freethrow?
Usually double foul happens when a defensive foul is followed by another defensive foul, and rarely followed by an offensive foul, but it can happen if B fouled hard and A shoves B away to make a shot. |
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In your play, it is a double foul, and both are penalized. |
Huh?
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Also (and I'm not sure if this will help potato), there are a couple of plays in the case book that deal with this -- and you get slightly different rulings depending on the specifics.
I don't have the books here to cite, though. |
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How So?
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Help me understand your point. |
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That seems to be different than what you are saying, but I'm still seeing the reasoning behind your statement. |
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Not alleging you to be wrong, just trying to find a reference that justifies your point. I do see that 2.19.8C says, "Even though airborne shooter A1 committed a charging foul, it is not a player control foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul." Is that what you were referring to, or is there another I should consider? |
I guess it depends on how you define "approximately at the same time," but I see this clearly as a false double foul, for which each foul carries its own penalty.
4.19.9 Situation A The blocking foul doesn't cause the ball to become dead, but the foul by the offense (a player-control foul) wipes off the shot. A1 gets two free throws on an empty lane. If the second free throw is made, team B gets a throw-in on the endline. If it's missed, team B gets a designated-spot throw-in nearest the spot of the player-control foul. |
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The definitions are your friend |
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I seem to recal another case, but maybe I'm getting it confused with the try-foul-GT (or BI) situation. |
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You're Correct
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Duh. Doi. That's what I get when I try to think through these things while passing the time watching daughter's volleyball game. :o |
So in the blarge situation we are discussiong, when do you consider it a double foul and when do you consider it a false double foul? Whether the ball is released on the try or not? I am looking at 4.19.8c and 4.19.9a.
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Double foul on a blarge. Never a false double.
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4.19.8c is a single contact which draws opposite calls from two different officials. |
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I see no reason why any double foul could not be called by two different officials. The unique thing about 4.19.8c is conflicting block/charge calls on the same play, which by definition is impossible. Others say both fouls must be reported when the officials give the conflicting preliminary signal, but I see nothing in the case play which demands this. What do you think? Hey, he asked.:D |
I'm not sure what the situations are, to be honest. But....
There would need to be more of a difference. Any time you have a double foul, neither can be a PC due to definitions. It is possible to have a double foul called by one official (not likely, but possible) on a shooter. |
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If you don't mind a Don Quixote pic. |
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As for your last question, it would depend on which foul happened first. In the OP, I'd clear the lane and give the ball to the defense after the basket. |
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And, yes, I meant can NOT be scored. I don't think it would depend on which happened first. If there is a PC foul, the ball is dead. Subsequent contact wouldn't even be a foul unless it was intentional or flagrant (and I don't think that is the situation under discussion). So, the only way you can get two fouls where one of them is a PC foul is if the PC foul happens last. |
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In 4.19.9A , The fouls are not by players against each other. One B player fouls A1, and A1 in turn fouls a DIFFERENT B player. That makes it a false double foul. Here the "charge" is a PC foul and BOTH fouls are penalized. |
One other possibility would be a simultaneous foul. No books handy, but I have to assume that would also exclude a PC.
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