Block/Charge video
 

Because we all love videos;

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I have a block. The last step to get into LGP looks late to me. Plus if you want to draw a charge under the basket I'm not going to give it to you unless you are very clearly there in time.

The season is almost here!

From this view I agree with the Lead.

What's your definition of "in time"? Looks like a good call to me.

Charge. I don't think the lateral movement OP is talking about takes away the defenders LGP.

Good call. Would be a shame to penalize the D on this one.

Charge
 

Charge. The defender established LGP. I would also be ok with a no-call. I don't know the flow/physicality of the game, but they are supposed to be two of the best HS teams in the country and the contact wasn't that severe.

This game was played under NFHS rules. By rule, what does being under the basket have to do with anything?

Hate to Pile On, But . . .
 

Therefore, a charge is granted anywhere else on the floor in spite of the defense getting there a little late? :confused:

:D

NFHS: Legal guarding position by the secondary defender and obvious displacement. Charge 100% of the way.

NCAA-W: This would be a restricted arc play since the player received the ball outside the lower defensive box as I understand the new rule. True?

I don't understand how you could have a no-call on this play with the displacement across the lane but that's why we are all here to learn.

-Josh

I could see a no-call if you think displacement was sufficiently embellished. I've seen players cause themselves to slide back that far on minor contact.

From this angle, I like the call, although I would like to see the lead on the other side to get this. He would have had a much better view of the play, and the level of contact that was actually made.

It was an immediate drive to the basket, I think he was good in not rotating. Plus his partners were slow in getting down court.

If he rotates then and A1 passes the ball across court there would be nobody to referee ball side.

I get that, and not everyone will agree with me. This was a slow break, IMO, and I have no problem going ball side for the angle. If it makes C bust his hump a bit more (I pregame that I'll do this), so be it.

Regardless, if L doesn't get over (for whatever reason), this is C's call. The fact that he's a bit slow coming down court doesn't change that. I think the L was right in getting it, but I'm a bit disappointed I don't see a whistle from C.

All the guys I work for don't want us rotating until all 3 officials are in the front court.

But even if the C had gotten down the court faster he is supposed to be officiating A1 and B1 all the way to the basket and up in the air. B1 is contesting the shot from behind so the C has to watch for that contact. The C is not going to be focused on that secondary defender (B2) sliding in and taking the contact.

To me this is the Lead's whistle all the way.

SOme say don't rotate until all officials are in the FC.

Others say get over where you need to be and it's up to the other officials to move.

It might depend on what you can rely on from the "average" official.

When in rome ....

And, sometimes you need to officiate, no matter what the "mechanics" say.

I'm just saying if its bang/bang and the defender is under the basket, I'm going to lean towards a block. That's all Im saying. And from the angle given, it looks like B1 slides into his final position while A1 is airborne.

True. The drive to the basket started outside of the LDB and would be a blocking foul if the secondary defender established LGP while standing on or in the restricted arc.

I have to agree with BNR here, no way C can effectively officiate on ball matchup and worry about where secondary defender is. This is and should be the leads call.

Oh, I understood what you said. I'm just saying what does it have to do with the NFHS rule book? There's nothing to support it and if I'm the defensive head coach and you tell me that you may also be calling a T on me.

If B1 doesn't establish LGP in time, so be it. However if you tell a (high school) coach - or your partner or your supervisor - the call had anything to do with B1 being under the basket, you're going against the rule book.


Yes there is but it would have involved the C getting up court faster since in transition he should try to be even with the ball between the tops of the circles. If he's where he's supposed to be he can at least anticipate what's going to happen next (i.e., a second defender coming over). By not moving with the ball the C created a 2-person call situation in a 3-person game. In an ideal world first whistle on that play should come from C since it started and ended in his primary. L should be secondary.

I do not agree that there is no way the C could see this, but it would not be easy. And the L should be trying to help on this play understanding the C might have a whistle, but the C can get this in many situations. Not all, but many.

Peace

Jetmet, I will have to disagree with you as to what happens in the ideal world. Your world view is consistent with working NCAA-W basketball, mine is from the NCAA-M viewpoint. Two different worlds, two different philosophies.

Jrut, I agree, C needs to stay engaged and can get this if he has to. I just think L will have better look and should have first crack.

I'm really surprised there is any discussion on this one. It seems like a obvious charge to me.

From a college standpoint yes, there are two different philosophies. This was a h.s. game and that's where I'm coming from.

Regarding the C and transition plays the NFHS manual says the C is "(r)esponsible if the ball goes to the basket on (their) side." (Sec. 3-3-5-C3)

So who should be looking for contact up top? This is a high school game on national TV which tells me there is above the rim action possible. If the C (even if he is in position) is looking for secondary defenders then who is watching for possible fouls at the rim?

I would think it's the T's job. C for this play has primary and L has secondary meaning they're going to be focused below the rim at the moment of contact.

This doesn't even look debatable to me. I think it's an obvious PC. In my opinion.

No way is it the Ts job. So basically you are saying all 3 officials should be focused on A1. The Slot is responsible for everything involving A1 vs B1 on this play including any contact up high.

The Lead is properly taking first crack on the secondary defender.

We may be going on two different meanings of "up top" in this play. I commented thinking "up top" meant rebounding after the fact. If it's contact up high in the initial - or even secondary - matchup itself I'd expect to be aware of it if I was the C.