Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game ...
 

The recent thread on rules regarding the jump ball to start the game has given me an idea for an article for our local board's newsletter. The working title is, "Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game".

I want concentrate on things that officials often, or sometimes, say during a game that do not have any basis in the rules.

Examples may include:

"On the floor" (for fouls against players who are not in the act of shooting).
"Don't move" (before a designated spot throwin).
"Hold your spots" (before the jump ball).
"You can't stand behind him" (before a the jump ball, to a player who is directly behind an opponent, who are both ten feet off the circle).
"Everybody get behind the division line" (during a free throw for a technical, or intentional, foul).
"Let it hit the rim" (before a free throw).
"Over the back" (on a rebounding foul, it's probably a pushing foul).
"Reaching in" (on a foul against a ball handler, it's probably a holding foul, an illegal use of hands foul, or a hand check foul).
"Coach, you have one timeout left" (when, by rule, we should only be notifying head coaches when their team has been granted its final allowable timeout).
"Sit down" (to a coach who has not been charged with a technical foul).
"You have to take out your earrings" (instead of, "You can't play with earrings").

I really don't want to get into a debate regarding whether, or not, we should be saying things like this in a game for the purpose of preventative officiating, I just want those officials who are saying things like this to know that there is no basis in the rules for these statements, with a short explanation of why these statements are incorrect.

Anything to add to the list?

On the floor!

This One Floored Me ...
 

Good one. Thanks. It's added.

I had a game in which two HS players, A1 & B1 went diving after a loose ball. A1 was sliding on his stomach before catching up to the ball and B1 kind of fell on him and was sliding with him on his back. They went only about two feet like this. They came to a stop with B1 laying right on top of A1 as the ball went OOB. I looked down at the two of them and said, quite loudly, "Get a room". They both laughed, as did quite a few other players, but I'm not sure I would recommend this. After all, there isn't anything wrong with that. :rolleyes:

*In this current society of gay/lesbo permissiveness---I guess saying "get a room" to two men [or women] whom inadvertently wound up laying on top of each in pursuit of a "loose ball other could be percieved as either an attempt at "comedy" or a statement of "levity". But what the heck..lol anyway.

*If I could add to your List:

1. After the timeout has expired and the horn has sounded to resume play, some refs shout to the benches "let's play ball" or "break up the huddle".
Is it really part of our job to "usher" the teams back on court by shouting such or blowing our whistle several times to make them resume play?
Lately, I have begun to just stand by the ball at the point of inbounding and slowly and dramatically starting a 5-second count. Usually a player sees this and runs out to inbound it.
So, that's what I add to your List: "Refs should not be ushering the play to resume when there are horns and assistant coaches to fulfill this function--it's not our job", correct?

From the manual ...
 

From the manual:

D. Resuming Play:
1. At the warning signal (first horn) for all time-outs, and the intermissions
between the first and second and third and fourth quarters, the
officials will step toward the nearest team huddle and notify the coaches/
bench by raising an index finger and saying "first horn."

We have a right to tell them what to do as we can use the RPP if they are not ready. So I do not find this even an issue if said word for word as you stated. Understand the reasoning for this list is that these things are usually incorrect or not supported by rule. Part of our job (at least in my experience) is to get them out of the huddle and if they don't, we use the procedures in place. It is called preventative officiating IMO.

Peace

I disagree with you that these have no rules basis or that they cannot be used. We are not giving rules clinics. We have every right to convey a message even if that message is somewhat incomplete. It is the player's and coach's job to know the rules we are talking to them about. If they do not understand the nuance, shame on them.

Peace

Well this thread began with the author's benign and well-intentioned attempt to "dispel" some misconceptions of officiating that ostensibly were either unsupported by formal nfhs doctrine or had beomce so ingrained in officiating parlance that the author thought they ought be addressed--at least in a cursory manner via this forum. But inevitably, as seems to be the pattern amongst the writers on this forum, this issue is morphing into another esoteric debate.
For the record, it's clear to me that all of the points that were said "should not be done" will continue to be frequently done--not because of malevolent intent or ignorance--but rather because they are simply not worth changing. Thus, we can make a list of 99 such items, but they will continue to be practiced.

No one term is going to sentence is going to convey every rule or every facet of a rule. That is why I take issue with why some of these things cannot be said in the first place. We tell players and coaches what they need to know to apply the rule. That is different from saying "On the floor" when we are conveying why we made a call. Telling a player "You cannot move" on a designated throw-in only tells them what they often expect they can do. I get asked often on a throw-in by a player, "Can I move?" I think we are often telling them what they think they can or cannot do and preventing a silly violation. I do not think it is that big of a deal.

Peace

Wrong.

Wrong again.

Read more, post less for now.

+1

Some of us do what we're expected to do in our areas. All I know is that jumping straight to strict implementation of the RPP could be considered a career-limiting move in many areas.

I do it, but I find this to be, for the most part, useless.

I'll give an example from my repertoire of mess ups. Sophmore mens game, time out. First horn we both go to respective teams and Say first horn, Second horn same thing, then we go to our spots, both teams are slow to come out. Defense makes it to the floor maybe 10 seconds after the second horn. Inbounding team is still slow. I place the ball on the floor and begin the 5 count and this of course gets their attention and we get underway. Second half same thing, this time it is my partner administering but the offense is ready to go and the defense is still in the huddle. After more than sufficient time he gives a solid blast on his whistle and gives the ball to the inbounding team. Of course they get an easy bucket and the other coach is obviously livid.

Did we follow the ROP procedure? Yep we sure did. Did we inform the teams? Yep. Did what we did help make the game smoother. Hell no. From this experience, I have learned after discussing it with the peeps on this forum that preventitive officiating in this case is very improtant even if it isn't necessarily backed by rule. Now, if they don't break that huddle on the second horn I am right there hollering at them that the ball is coming in and will get in the middle of the huddle if I have to.

Wolf Whistle ???
 

Sharpshooternes: It seems that you forgot one important step, sounding your whistle.

Au Contraire, Mon Frere ...
 

We're what you call experts and we should be using the correct terminology. And many of these, with the possible exception of the earrings, are not factually based on the rules.

Silence Is Golden ...
 

With the exception of the earrings statement, I never said what officials should be saying, I just said that we shouldn't be saying these. Sometimes silence may be the best statement.

Question Answered ...
 

My two possible answers, "Designated spot", or, "You have the whole line", either accompanied by the appropriate signal. Both statements are 100% correct by rule. "You can't move" is never 100% correct by rule.

No, not correct.

Most of the time I find it useful. There's usually an assistant coach who pays attention and will start telling the HC to get them out.

I tell players they can back up.

Yes we are experts, but we are not talking to experts.

So you are silent when you see them in the lay-up line and then when the first time they come out with earrings or tape over their ears you say nothing until everyone notices? Now you have sent a player off the court that cannot play until the issue is taken care of and then you involved the coach for the first time. This again is about communication. If you say nothing they might make a scene. And this is not usually a 2 second conversation either. I also did not say that this is all you say.

Most players have no idea what you mean when you say "Designated spot" or what that means they can or cannot do. So saying that and expecting them to know is silly to me. Sorry, but that is beyond silly. Now I say to a player that can move around the end line, "You can run the endline" as that is how they know move along the end line and usually how they ask a question about their ability to do so. Saying "Anywhere along the line" is silly to me when we are trying to communicate to them.

Peace

Reading Is Fundamental ...
 

I never said that. This is what I said:

So when a player passes by me, in the layup line, with earrings, I say ""You can't play with earrings". I'm not telling them that they have to take off the earrings, I'm just telling them that they can't play with the earrings. After that, I don't care what they do, but they're not playing with earrings. This is a long time local "mechanic" based on some liability issues, and I have no problem if others state this directive differently, i.e., "You have to take out your earrings".

This was the only statement on my list where I indicated a better statement. I purposely did not suggest better statements for the others.

Don't Move ???
 

Agree 100%. However, they do know what, "Don't move", means, and that statement is not factually correct based on the rules. They can move either, or both, feet anywhere within the three foot wide designated area. They can move one foot to the left side, or to the right side, of the three foot wide designated area, as long as they keep one foot in the three foot wide designated area. And they can move as far back as they can, taking as many steps as they want to, in the five second time limit. Spin that anyway you want to, but that's moving, so why would anyone, not necessarily you, tell a player that they can't move on a designated spot throwin?

"Hey Mr. BillyMac, you told me not to move on my throwin a few plays ago, so why did my opponent get to move a few feet on a that last throwin? Why didn't you blow your whistle?

Also, I had to T up a coach this past year because he wouldn't stop complaining to my partner, who, as the administering official, let a player "move" on a designated spot throwin. The coach kept saying, "But he can't move". My partner tried, and I tried, to explain the movement limitations on a designated spot throwin, but he wouldn't accept any of that, he just kept saying, "But he can't move". Eventually, I had to tell him to, "Sit down".

Whistle While You Work ...
 

I hope that you preceded this with a sounding of your whistle, a very loud sounding of your whistle.

Any Other Way Would Be Boring ...
 

That's how we roll here. Get used to it.

Burke's Law ...
 

If I get my interpreter to approve this article, and I'm pretty sure that he will, I guarantee you that, as the law of the land, these false statements will be banished, and that we won't be hearing these statements from all but just a few officials here in my little corner of Connecticut. I can see this being presented to new officials every year, so that they don't form any bad habits, as some of us old-timers have, unfortunately, already done.

*Now that is great advice Billy Macs!
3 officials standing side by side and looking up in the sky. A passer by asks: "what color is the sky?"
Official 1 says "blue"
Offical 2 says "gray"
Official 3 says "azure"
Guaranteeed! lol

*But getting back to the point here: BillyMacs I hope your approval goes through because it would truly help to start banishing some of the misconceptions that inhere.

Better Than "Don't Move" ...
 

Another thread:

Just think, if you would have teed him up, you could have told him to "Sit down" and also "Now you can't move". :)

I wonder where the notion of admonishing players to "stay behind the half ct line during tech shots" originated? Must've had a logical origin--maybe to prevent aggressive behavior between opponents or shooter and the player that fouled.

Billy,

Keep in mind "Don't move" is not used to tell them the rule much of the time. That is so they do not follow you around away from their spot too. There are times when we bounce the ball to them and they go to another spot then where the violation or foul took place.

And once again, I really could give a damn about what the NF book says. We do not use it and it has nothing to do with a lot of basic things we do as officials. There are so many situations that book never covers and even when my state used it, the book was useless in so many situations. And even by things you have said here, your state does what they want as it relates to IAABO standards. I am glad you referenced the Manual, but not the end all be all of what we do.

Peace

I have found it to be extremely helpful. The coaches are much quicker about getting their players out of the huddle. We're in the huddle after the first horn, and I have to resort to RPP about once every two seasons at most in high school games. Younger levels are different

The only thing I'm going to add to this list is: Anything during free throws except the number of shots left to take.

The Sound of Silence (Simon & Garfunkel) ...
 

I will say, "Let it hit", to Catholic middle school players, early in the game, during the early part of the season.

Also, here, in my little corner of Connecticut, private prep schools use hybrid rules, combining NFHS, and NCAA, rules. Occasionally a private prep school will play a public school, or a private prep school from another state. In the early part of these games, I will often say "On the release", as much of a reminder to the players as to my partner, and myself. Other than that, I agree with you.

Can I Keep Him, He Followed Me All The Way Home From School ...
 

I hate it when that happens, usually on sideline throwins, in the front court, below the free throw line extended, when the lead (two person game) has to make a long bounce to the inbounder.

Forgot to type this step in my post. Did not forget to do it at the time of the incident.

That is why I say "I'll bounce it to you there" then step away if I'm not already away. Much more appropriate than "don't move".

Eitehr way it goes, I am still saying, "Don't move." I think it makes little difference and nothing I have heard changes my mind or seems relevent to what a player thinks they can or cannot do.

Peace

We've also taken to tweeting our whistles as we come in on the first horn. Picked this up from some NCAA Men's officials and it's worked well for us. Easy for them to ignore the horn, but the whistle grabs attention.

I didn't put a ball on the floor once last season in over 60 games.

I say "SPOT THROW" while pointing to the spot (Signal 26). I say "YOU HAVE BASELINE/ENDLINE" while motioning back and forth (Signal 23).

Perhaps include a section including "mechanics officials should probably not being doing during a game".

Like my signal letting my partners know which teams are in the single/double bonus. Or doing whatever this guy is doing.

I would have a violation every single game if I did not make it clear they could not leave on the release.

Peace

I'm Getting Tired Standing Up Here On This Soapbox ...
 

Just about everything is more appropriate than, "Don't move", since, "Don't move", is in direct conflict with the throwin rules.

And It's Always Loaded, And The Safety's Always Off ...
 

Me neither, but it's a weapon that I always have in my holster, and I'm not afraid to use it.

Please Sign My Don't Say "Don't Move" Petition ...
 

Keep saying, "Don't move", over, and over again, along with a few partners that also say it, and eventually a player, or even worse, a coach, will start to believe what they hear. Far fetched? Maybe, but it happened to me in a game:

Let It Hit ???
 

From the content of your many posts, I'm assuming that you're a veteran, experienced, official, working a demanding high school varsity schedule with some pretty good players in the Chicagoland area. Yet, you say that you have to remind them about this basic rule quite often? We seldom have to warn high school varsity players regarding this rule in my little corner of Connecticut.

Why the difference? Do different leagues that you service use different rules, i.e. hybrid NCAA, and NFHS, rules, like the private prep schools in my area? Or are your players just stupider than mine? Maybe your players are so talented that they are already thinking about their college careers, and college rules, whereas, many of my players are wondering where they parked their John Deere tractor in the school's parking lot, or if they remembered to lock up the chickens in the coop for the night.

Seriously, why the difference?

Short term memory problems?

I wouldn't doubt it...I probably have a player, over half the time, ask whose ball it is after a timeout.

Why would I care if a player thinks they cannot move?

Peace

I get asked about once or twice a game that question by a player.

Peace

I get that one, too. Like Jeff, about once or twice a game.

But I never have to deal with the issue of when it's legal to enter the lane except in men's league games. Even then, you tell them once and they know the rest of the game.

It's just an odd rule to have to repeat, IMO.

When The Ball Is Dead, We Must Be Alive (Confucius) ...
 

I really hate it when I get asked this question by my partner.

It's even worse when my partner asks me and I can't remember.

Well I live in a big city area that is influenced heavily by the NBA and other levels. Kids around here can touch many NBA players and come from schools where NBA players currently have played. Actually many high school player play in Pro-Am Leagues over the summer or watch a lot of NBA and I am sure they do what they see. So yes, you have to remind them or you will have very obvious violations. And when you call a violation it is easy to say, "I told you to wait."

Peace

So I Guess That You Won't Be Signing My Petition ...
 

Man. You are one persistent son of a gun. You stick to your guns. You're a pain in the butt, but, good for you. I often wish that I had your confidence. You're still wrong, but you're persistent, and confident. Again, good for you.

It is not about sticking to my guns, I just do not agree with you. You have not said anything that anyone has stated that is in charge or over an organization that I am apart of in any capacity. If you do not want to stay "Don't move" that is fine with me. But you are not in a position to tell me or others what they should or should not say, when it really does not have connotation that you have assumed it does with everyone. I have similar pet peeves but I know they are my pet peeves, not speaking for what others should do. Just like you wearing a belt, it is up to you to decide if that is what you want to do when others thinks it looks silly. And trust me, there are more people that do not want to wear a belt then are upset about this terminology that you seem to be upset or irritated by. I think I have a right to my opinion, it is not about right or wrong.

Peace

Add to your list:
1. Refs don't need to "remind" a coach that they have been issued a 1st warning prior to giving them a second technical foul and subsequent ejection.

2. When a coach asks "how many timeouts do I have?" We refs have no business informing them; that's the responsibility of their ass't coach or score table personnel.

To your first point. We don't have to give them a warning anyway. Reminding them of their warning is just giving them another warning, and that's just from the UN school of game management.

All Politics Are Local ...
 

Read my thread starter. I'm writing an article for my local board newsletter, which I hope may become part of my local board's training program. All I asked for was for additional items on the list, i.e., "On the floor". That's all I asked for, nothing more. Some wanted to debate certain items. I'm always up for a good debate.

Good Addition ???
 

"Coach, you have one timeout left"? We've debated that here on the Forum in the past. I will consider it.

Just The Facts, Ma'am ...
 

I am neither upset, nor am I irritated. You are entitled to an opinion, but I'm dealing with factual rules here, not opinions. "Don't move" is a factually wrong as telling players to, "Stand behind the division line", during a free throw for a technical foul free throw. It's wrong, and it's wrong.

You can certainly have a valid opinion that it alright to say "Don't move", that it really doesn't effect the outcome of the situation, or the game (although I have given one example of a technical foul charged to a coach because he thought a player "couldn't move", but lets just call that anecdotal evidence, and forget about it). That's an opinion that's alright to have.

But you cannot argue that, "Don't move", is factually correct. That's not an opinion, that's facts, or the lack of such. You are certainly welcome to have an opinion that two plus two equals five, but it's still factually untrue. You can have an opinion that BillyMac lacks math skills and believes that two plus two equals five, and that may certainly be 100% true, but that doesn't mean that two plus two equals five.

Maybe it doesn't belong on the list. Maybe it's wrong to avoid saying it. All valid, and possibly true, opinions. But it still doesn't match the written, and interpreted rules. That's a fact, Jack.

Why would communicating with your partners be something that an official should not be doing?

I don't offer it, but if asked I will answer.

That's when I look down at the ball and say, "Uh - some guy named Wilson" (or Spaulding, or whatever). :rolleyes:

NFHS Rules 2-7-11 Officials' General Duties . . . Notifying the head coach when a team is granted its final allowable time-out.
Some supervisors would rather that we notify the head coach when a team has one time-out left.
"When in Rome . . ."

I thought the same thing until I checked out the video.

The video is about an over-the-top block mechanic. the statement was about telling your partner(s) that a team is in the bonus so you are less likely to forget the shooter on the next foul. Or, I mis-read it or the link is wrong.

Exactly. Reminding my partner(s) of the pending bonus situation is expected here, and it's just good practice. It's done subtly, so no one really knows what we're doing.

Telling everyone in the gym that you saw a clean block? I'd avoid that.

Some communication is good. Other communication can get you in trouble.

You miss the overall point (once again). We have to communicate many things quickly and precisely and do so using terminology players and coaches would understand. If we don't then we will confuse the people we are talking to. They are not looking to us for a rules clinic or a complete explaination of what the rule is on a throw-in or other things. You used the example of telling players to go to half court, but I have never told any player to go to half court but that is where they tend to end up. I know I tell them usually to just vacate the lane nad where they go after that is their business. This is usually an either/or answer or a statement to convey which kind of throw-in is taking place. And after timeouts it is very common to have a player that is about to throw-in the ball ask, "Can I move?" They are not asking what they can do in a designated spot and likely have never heard the term "designated spot." And I did not say you should or should not say this as well. And I am taking issue with your take on this not because of right and wrong, but why does it matter? It does not matter as no one is that intune to what we are saying that they think, "Well that means I cannot move." Do they think they cannot move their arms or head or the ball because we say, "Don't move" on a throw-in? Funny, I have never had a player feel restricted in what they do. If they do not know what the rule is or their coach has not told them what they cannot do like other aspects of the game, that is not my fault or my responsiblity to teach it to them. And I cannot remember the last time I have ever called a violation or seen a player "not move" to the point they are stagnant or act like if they breathe they will violate some rule. And if I find it necessary, I am still going to say it when approrpirate despite what you suggest Billy. No one in my officiating life has told me or anyone to stop using or not to say this in any way. And I have been to many camps and trainings where this could be discussed or I have been observed as well as others that have said similar things.

Peace

Actually, Billy is spot on this time.

It should be our goal to use accurate and brief communications that convey the meaning without implying things that are not true. You may have found a short phrase that is quick and gets your desired results but it over states the requirement. Such things are the genesis of myths and misconceptions. No one says you need to give a complete explanation of the rule is but you shouldn't be stating it in a way that is wrong.

I've T'd a coach over an opponent who "moved" on a spot throw in because he was sure they couldn't "move". Where did he get that idea? From officials who tell the players and coaches "don't move". By saying "don't move" you have confused them, not informed them.

I have never T'd a coach over this issue and honestly have not been the administrating official and they think the player had a pivot foot and moved that "pivot foot" or what they thought was a pivot foot.

What have you misinformed them about?

Actually years ago I had to T a coach because he felt after a made basket (FT) that I should as the official go to the other side of the court and hand the thrower the ball. Not only would that have been against our state's mechanic to not bounce the ball across the lane, but it would have confused the hell out of my partners and wondering why C could now have to go to L and the L would have to go to C. The coach was convinced that his ability to throw the ball in had something to do with where I gave his player the ball and acted out and got a T. And I told his player, "You can run over there if you like."

Again you are entilted to your opinion, but when someone that I work for or with complains about such communication it will certainly be the first. Until I read this thread I would not have known anyone cared that much.

Peace

I have to agree with JRut on this one. In the middle of a game it isn't my responsibility to conduct a rules clinic for the players and coaches. I use spot throw-in rather than don't move. If the player and or coach, because of their lack of rule knowledge, takes that to mean they cannot move that is their problem, not mine. They will figure it out eventually or continue to put themselves at a disadvantage. As far as perpetuating myths and misconceptions, the horse is already out of the barn. Fans, players, and coaches have already been influenced by their exposure to these and their stance on the rules or plays in question isn't going to change until they actually read the rule book. Since we all know that is going to happen, worrying about the myths and misconceptions these people hold is a complete waste of time and energy.

Absolutely.

Peace

Difference is, you're not saying "don't move."

I say, "this is your spot."

I agree with you. I only say that because I was admonished by a leader in my association not to use that signal.

Did the leader give a reason? Did the leader give an alternative?

So what is the difference in what you are telling them? Does a player stay their like a statue? Do they know what spot they have? Do they know what that means? Seriously, what are they getting out of your words they think they cannot do?

Peace

I was using it during play. The gym did not have a team foul indicator on the scoreboard, and one team was holding for the final shot of the period. I knew the defense was at 6 fouls, so I used that signal.

I had asked this guy to stick around and watch our crew, as he had just finished his game. He asked me what was with the "hook 'em horns" signal. I told him and he said don't do that. No alternative or explanation given.

To be fair, I had just finished watching NBA playoff ball and that was a signal I saw them using in those situations. Probably not the best idea to incorporate signals from the NBA game.

As has been said, you're not giving a rules clinic. If they want to know what the spot is, they can find out but at least they're not getting misled into believing they can't move. In fact, they can legally move and move a lot....forwards and backwards. Why are you telling them to not do something they are permitted to do?

If you're going to tell players anything, at least make the effort to make your statements accurate. It is OK if the statement is incomplete, just avoid things that are contrary to the truth.

Respectfully throwing it out there... How about "You've got 36 inches (or 3 feet) wide and all the way back"? JRut, whaddaya think? (Again respectfully)

If you want to be accurate then yes. Otherwise when you say 32 inches, they really will be confused. ;)

Peace

Again, I think telling them "Don't move" tells them what they cannot do, which is what many of them might think they can do. And that is run the end line. And if you tell them spot, they are not going to know if they can move forward or backward, so is that incorrect too?

I just find this as extremely splitting hairs. Even if you say "You have a Designated spot" they still are likely not to have any idea what you said to them. After all sports and rules definitions are not the same as real life or world definitions.

Peace

I didn't T her, but had a spirited discussion over this once. GV the thrower moved slightly and bounced the ball on the floor. Home coach emphatically said that she couldn't do that. At halftime she came to me with it, in a relatively nice way. The floor had 12" tiles. This is an ideal way to describe what the thrower can do. She stands on one tile. This is the center of the spot. She can do a crossover step to the adjacent tile and then extend to her maximum length from there without violating. She "knew better" than this. I offered to bet double or nothing the game fee.

After the game the assistant was trying to look up the rule online, or so I heard.

If you tell them spot, that should tell them it is a spot throw-in and they cannot run the line. What they don't know after that is not our concern.

I agree this is splitting hairs.

Fixed it for ya...

All Politics Are Local ...
 

Agree. All our supervisors, assigners, commissioners, etc., live in some kind of "Rome", so we do what they expect us to do, otherwise, we won't be working, and whether, or not, we tell coaches that they have one timeout left becomes moot, because we're not working.

Fact Versus Opinion ???
 

JRutledge: No. You're missing the point. I am agreeing that you may have a valid opinion that, "Don't move", should not be on a list of "Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game", in fact just for the sake of argument, I may agree with you on that, that is, that, "Don't move", should not be on a list of "Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game". There, now we're in agreement in regard to our opinion of said list. Peace.

Let's agree, or, for sake of argument, pretend to agree, for sake of argument, on something else, that there are alternative things to say to player in a designated spot throwin, but, "Don't move" seems to be the quickest, and the best, statement that most efficiently communicates needed information to a player, and to a coach, without holding a rules clinic. So now were in agreement, for sake of argument, on two things. Peace.

Now let's look at some facts, not opinions, but cold facts.

Fact #1: Despite that fact that we agree that, "Don't move", seems to be the quickest, and the best, statement that most efficiently communicates needed information to a player, and to a coach, without holding a rules clinic, it does not match the rules in the rulebook. There are there scenarios where a designated spot inbounder can legally move, within the designated area, a step, either side, outside the designated area, and as far back as can be accomplished in five seconds. These are facts, not opinions.

Fact #2: At least two officials on this Forum, Camron Rust, and BillyMac, have dealt with coaches who took the directive, "Don't move", literally, and were charged with technical fouls for unsporting complaining about opponent players who "moved" on a spot throw in because he was sure they couldn't "move". These are facts, not opinions.

Now that I have validated, and accepted, for sake of argument, that your opinion that, "Don't move", does not belong on a list of "Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game", can you, JRutledge, at least, give me the courtesy of answering the following two questions?

1) Do you dispute that Fact #1 (above) is, indeed, factual?

2) Do you dispute that Fact #2 (above) is, indeed, factual?

What if the list were named: "Things That Officials Say In A Game That Are Not Factually Consistent With The Rules Of The Game Of Basketball, But They Say Them Anyway Because It's The Most Efficient Way To Communicate With Players, and Coaches"?

"Spot Throw In" ...
 

Sounds like you agree with me, otherwise you would say, "Don't move". After all, according to some Forum members, both statements mean the same thing, with, "Spot throw-in", being much too complex for player's brain to handle without the official conducting an "on the spot" rules clinic (pun intended).

It tells thyem they can't run the endline. It's accurate rule terminology.

Use what you want, obviously it's working well enough for you.

It's just like 'on the floor' IMO, in that the vast majority of the time it gets the right message across, but it's incorrect and potentially exacerbates already problematic rule myths.

Terrible Idea ...
 

Rooster: Without a smilie, I can't tell if your serious, or trying to be funny, or sarcastic, or what? In any case, I don't like your idea. This sounds like the rules clinic that JRutledge is trying to avoid, and something that, I think, JRutledge, and I, can agree upon 100%.

Plus, only one foot has to remain over the thirty-six inch area, there is actually quite a bit of movement allowed on a designated spot throwin. Get out your tape measure and give it a try.

I Already Know, I'm A Bad Boy ...
 

Now let's discuss baseline, and endline. I think that the fire needs more gasoline.

A Poll Would Really Piss Off The Spirit Of Jurassic Referee ...
 

But others have. Please don't tempt me to start a poll asking if any Forum member has ever observed, or worked with, or heard about, an official who directed players to go behind the division line.

Not trying to be funny or sarcastic. JRutledge said he hadn't heard anything that he would use instead of "Don't move." I was trying to come up with something that can be communicated quickly, that is factually correct, and lets a thrower know what he/she CAN do.

I don't see this as a rules clinic, but that's me.

I do know that "only one foot has to remain over the thirty-six inch "spot", there is actually quite a bit of movement allowed on a designated spot throw-in." See post #88 :D

Hate is a strong word, doncha think? :)

I thinks that's enough smilies for now... :)

Tough Day At Work ...
 

Yes I do. I apologize. I fixed it. Ask anybody on the Forum, I may post some pretty stupid things, but I always, and I mean always, try to be polite. Sorry. Please don't tell my Mom. She would be very disappointed in me, and in our Irish Catholic family, we're really good about making family members feel guilty, and she's better at it than anybody else in the family. She's what you would call a "Guilt Expert".

What is the best way to convey "on the floor"?
 

I understand that saying "on the floor" is considered unacceptable so I stopped saying it.

However, I think it quickly conveys the essential information that the foul was before the shot.

So, I have said "spot" or "designated spot" instead. However, many players don't seem to understand what that means and I've been asked by players if it was a shooting foul.

I've also used "white ball" which seems to works better.

So, what is the best way to say it? I don't think that "before the shot" would be any more acceptable than "on the floor".

Just wondering, with regard to instructions or lack thereof, the only time I say anything is when the throw-in is on the endline after a timeout. Is this the case for others?


"on the spot" while pointing at the spot


or



"you can move" accompanied by the sweeping gesture up and down the line

I personally have no problem with "on the floor." Everybody knows what it means, even if they don't know why it means what it means.