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-   -   Traveling or Held Ball? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/95660-traveling-held-ball.html)

potato Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:22pm

Traveling or Held Ball?
 
If A1 is going towards the basket, holding the ball, D1 got his hand on the ball so A1 couldn't launch the ball, if A1 still holding the ball all the while when he landed i would assume it's a jump ball, but what if after D1 touches the ball, A1 let go of the ball, would A1 be legal to grab the ball before anyone else touches it since A1 is still the last person to touch the ball:

a.Before he touches the ground
b.After he touches the ground

Adam Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:15am

If A1 just lets go, either case is a travel.
If it's knocked out of his hands, either case is legal.
If he shoots the ball, either play is legal.

potato Mon Jul 29, 2013 01:25am

What if D1 hit the ball but the ball is still on A1's hand & A1 let go of the ball because his hand slipped due to the hit would you consider it as a fumble since he lost control and allow him to retrieve the ball in both cases?

I would assume if he intentionally throws the ball at a defender and retrieve it it's legal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 901040)
If A1 just lets go, either case is a travel.
If it's knocked out of his hands, either case is legal.
If he shoots the ball, either play is legal.


BillyMac Mon Jul 29, 2013 05:50am

Who You Gonna Call ???
 
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6230/6...473e048e_m.jpg

When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked and is unable to release the ball and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball. If, in this situation, the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot and play continues. If, in this situation, the defender simply touches the ball, and the airborne shooter returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation. When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and picks up the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

BillyMac Mon Jul 29, 2013 05:57am

How Many Times Did The Harlem Globtrotters Beat The Washington Generals ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by potato (Post 901035)
A1 is going towards the basket, D1 got his hand on the ball.

Finally. I was getting totally bored watching Team A play Team B over, and over, and over, and over, again. I'm really looking forward to watching Team D play. Maybe we'll see some interesting situations that we never saw with Team B. I hope that the Team D coach shows better sportsmanship than the Team B coach. How many times did we eject that Team B coach?

Quote:

Originally Posted by potato (Post 901035)
It's a jump ball.

No it's not, it's a held ball.

Raymond Mon Jul 29, 2013 06:55am

My head is going to explode with all these hypothetical judgment calls. :eek:

bob jenkins Mon Jul 29, 2013 07:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by potato (Post 901035)
but what if after D1 touches the ball, A1 let go of the ball,

You need to judge whether the touch still prevented A1 from launching the ball (held ball) or A1 just chose to let go (Adam's answer).

95% of the time it's the former, or else A1 will just continue with the try.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Mon Jul 29, 2013 09:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 901054)
Finally. I was getting totally bored watching Team A play Team B over, and over, and over, and over, again. I'm really looking forward to watching Team D play. Maybe we'll see some interesting situations that we never saw with Team B. I hope that the Team D coach shows better sportsmanship than the Team B coach. How many times did we eject that Team B coach?



No it's not, it's a held ball.


Billy:

I have a friend (yes, to all you naysayers out there, I do have friends, :p) here in Toledo that is a basketball official and played for the Washington Generals for a few years after he graduated from college before returning home (Toledo) to become a H.S. teacher.

MTD, Sr.

Raymond Mon Jul 29, 2013 09:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 901065)
You need to judge whether the touch still prevented A1 from launching the ball (held ball) or A1 just chose to let go (Adam's answer).

95% of the time it's the former, or else A1 will just continue with the try.

"Judgment", it's always the hardest thing for non-officials to grasp about officiating.

BillyMac Mon Jul 29, 2013 04:56pm

Is He ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 901077)
I have a friend here in Toledo that is a basketball official and played for the Washington Generals for a few years.

Louis Herman "Red" Klotz?

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.48140...79082&pid=15.1

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Mon Jul 29, 2013 05:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 901137)


No it isn't Red. Who still coaches the New York Nationals as they are currently called. Red will be 92 years young on Oct. 21, 2013.

The former player, and now H.S. mathematics teacher and H.S. basketball official that I know is Luke Murphy, III, who played for the Hofstra University Flying Dutchmen from 1982 to 1986.

MTD, Sr.

BktBallRef Mon Jul 29, 2013 07:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by potato (Post 901035)
If A1 is going towards the basket, holding the ball, D1 got his hand on the ball so A1 couldn't launch the ball, if A1 still holding the ball all the while when he landed i would assume it's a jump ball, but what if after D1 touches the ball, A1 let go of the ball, would A1 be legal to grab the ball before anyone else touches it since A1 is still the last person to touch the ball:

a.Before he touches the ground
b.After he touches the ground


4.44.3 SITUATION A:
A1 jumps to try for goal. B1 also jumps and:
(a) slaps the ball out of A1’s hands;
(b) touches the ball but does not prevent A1 from releasing the ball;
(c) touches the ball and A1 returns to the floor holding the ball; or
(d) touches the ball and A1 drops it to the floor and touches it first after it bounces.



RULING: In (a) and (b), the ball remains live.
In (c), a traveling violation.
In (d), a violation for starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.
Since the touching did not prevent the pass or try in (b), (c) and (d), the ball remains live and subsequent action is covered by rules which apply to the situation.


You have to judge what actually happened.

Travelling Man Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 901085)
"Judgment", it's always the hardest thing for non-officials to grasp about officiating.

despite the rule-books's efforts to encapsulate all possible scenarios and determine the correct call, that statemtn pretty much sums it up.


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