How much can ball handler use his arm?
 

It's pretty common to use Ball Handlers using their non handling hand to protect the ball, create space and more often using it to lock defenders behind them when they overtake them. However is there a line between what is legal and what is not?

For example is it legal to dribble side by side with the defender with your non-handling arm stretching outwards to create space between you and the defender (without overtaking the defender).

Also is it legal to use your arm/hand to press on a defenders upper leg/waist so the defender can't even move to block your path? Usually this happens when the ball handler is facing his back on the defender. Most of the time i see the handler just extend his arm so he can get a path but today i saw some guys pressing on the defenders upper leg that he can't even move sideway to defend.

It would be an offensive if the action is pretty obvious like pushing etc but using the arm to block/prevent defender's movement is there a line between legal & illegal?

Suggest you view these actions in light of 4-19-1 which follows in part stating...
Art 1..A personal foul is a player foul which involves illegal contact with an opponent while a ball is live, which hinders an opponent from performing normal defensive and offensive movements.
You may also want to factor in the concept of rhythm, speed, balance and quickness. Bear in mind there is nothing that precludes a player from holding their arm out in the absence of illegal contact.

What you just described woud you allow the defender to do those things against the ball handler? The ball handler doesnt get special treatment because he/she has the ball. I personally think we let the offense get away with way too much opposed to what we call on the defense (also in the post). If the defender has established LGP...then we need to penalize "illegal" contact by the ball handler when it affects the defenders RSBQ.

Seems you missed my entire point. The rule cited uses the neutral term 'player' which is applied equally to "offensive" and "defensive" players trying to perform their tasks.
By the same token I totally concur that RSBQ applies to ALL players.

They cannot use their arms to create contact and displace defenders, but that is not the same as simply sticking out an arm and nothing happening. It is just like anything else in the game, they may do something that is potentially illegal but is not illegal because it did not create contact or displace anyone. I say this because many coaches want us to call a foul for a ball handler that did neither or act like the only reason something happened was because of an off hand of a ball handler/dribbler. And a lot of times defenders have their hands on a ball handler and the reaction is the movement of the ball handler in response.

All judgment calls like most things we do and what one official sees as an advantage another official might see as a play-on.

Peace

When an offensive player pushes with their arm, this is a foul on the offensive player regardless of whether the defender has LGP. LGP is only relevant for block vs. charge. All other types of fouls (this one is illegal use of hands) are independent of LGP.

Play On or "call a foul"--this is always a dilemma. How do we percieve what the "intent" was in sticking out their arm (i.e., chicken winging it)?
If advantage is created, then whistile it is what I do.
In cases where the offensive dribbler is using it to ward off a pesky defeneder who is actually D'ing him/her up pretty good---then I'll call that offensive foul. I don't err toward "just giving" offensive players rights of way.

Perhaps the quotes mean you know this. Intent, in this case, has nothing to do with it.

By the Book
 

Let's take a look at 4-24-5 . . . "It is not legal to use hands on an opponent which in any way inhibits the freedom of movement of the opponent . . ."
And, more the to OP-
4-24-7 . . ."It is not legal to use the hand and/or forearm to prevent an opponent from attacking the ball during a dribble or when throwing for goal."
Of course, Basketball Rules Fundamentals 10. applies..."Personal fouls always involve illegal contact . . ."

Many coaches teach ballhandlers to set the off hand/forearm, in a position to discourage the defender from reaching in, and it becomes a moment of judgement by the covering official as to whether contact on that arm constitutes a foul, by the offense or defense.

My guess, especially given the timing of the posts, is that BigBaldGuywas respondiing to the OP, and not to you.

"mens rea" or gulity mind. As officials we are tasked with discerning what the intent is when we see a player doing this. From my perch the dribbler who is "warding off" with their off arm is usually incapable of executing sufficiently (or more appropriately not having been coached on how to) use effective dribble drive moves to evade the pesky defender. I whistle it--and I've not had a coach question the whistle--they usually shout to their player "just drive past him or pass it".

What other reason is a dribbler doing this other than to protect the ball from the defender? And what does it matter what his intent was?

No, we aren't tasked with any such thing. Intent means nothing on this play. All that matters is what actually happens, not what was intended by either of the players.

Pushing or impeding the defender in this manner isn't legal, even if the dribbler is merely trying to give the defender a better look at his new ink.

lol @ "get a better look at his ink"....too funny

I agree...thank you for the clarifying.

Yes, it is called "our judgement".

If the ball handler has the rights to the vertical space above the player, is it illegal for him to use the hand to block/push the defender's hand/arm away should the defender extend his arm into the handler's vertical space during layup, assuming the ball handler's arm remains within his vertical space and not extended into the defender's vertical space.

Also for a defender trying to block a standing still handler trying to pass the ball, is it illegal for the defender to extend his arms position towards the handler to restrict the handler's arm movement (close but no contact was made however the handler won't be able to make a pass/turn/swing his arms without coming in contact with the defender's arm/chest and even so his movement would be restricted). Would you call it impeding of movement on the defense when the handler arms comes into contact with the defender and arm movement restricted?

If you put your hands/arms into an opponent's vertical space, the onus is on you if there's contact. So for your second example, if B1 is playing defense with his/her arms reaching towards A1 and A1 moves his/her arms into B1's arms there really can't be a foul called on A1 (assuming A1 doesn't karate chop B1 or something like that).

If you are going to post on a basketball official's website you need to ingrain it into your mind that there are no personal fouls if there is no contact.

I understand the no contact = no foul thing, but my question is related to contact made by A1 (ball handler) because D1 was putting his hands around A1 with no contact but A1 has to initiate contact in order to pass his ball because he's surrounded by D1, would A1 be called for initiating the contact or will D1 be called for impeding of movement?

So meaning A1 has the right to defend his verticality with his body/arm,

what if:

A1 did not extend his arms into B1's vertical however pushed B1's extended arm away (within A1's verticality) and makes B1 fall down or cause B1 to be displaced while on air?

A1 initiate contacts with B1's extended arm within A1's verticality, would B1 be called for a defensive foul? For example B1 extended his arm towards A1 A1 raises arm to block B1 continues pressing his arm towards A1's blocking hand.

As I'm seeing these plays in my mind, both are either fouls on A or no calls.

If A1 is using their arm to push B1's arm out of the way, then verticality doesn't come into play. There is never a case where a player is permitted to use their arm to push any part of another player.