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-   -   Latest Version Of The Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules ... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/95141-latest-version-most-misunderstood-basketball-rules.html)

Adam Mon May 27, 2013 08:21am
potato, I don't know how you're going to get more thorough answers than you got in your original thread.

BillyMac Mon May 27, 2013 09:20am
Quote, Unquote ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 895600)
Held ball can be eliminated. What you talk about is nothing I've seen misunderstood.
BadNewsRef: From your posts, you seem to be a veteran official, who's been to the rodeo a few times. I can't believe that you never heard this, maybe from your early years working middle school games: "They need to have their hands on the ball for a few seconds."

If I had a dime for every time I heard this, or something similar, I might, just might, be able to buy a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

BillyMac Mon May 27, 2013 09:32am
I Can't Follow My Own Advice ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 895603)
A few more changes you could make.
"Never, ever, ever respond to a critique with a, "Yes, but ...". (BillyMac)

I appreciate your suggestions, and I will give them a closer look, but some (some, not all) of your selections are commonly misunderstood, by coaches, players and fans, not by officials, and with the possible exception of brand new officials who have just opened the rulebook for the first time, this list is not meant for officials.

I think that your overestimating the rules knowledge of the common, garden variety, fan, many of whom are not really die hard basketball fans, but are parents who are only there to watch their sons, or daughters: "That's not out of bounds, it didn't touch anything while going over the top of the backboard".

BillyMac Mon May 27, 2013 09:41am
Who Says I'm Not Writing An Article ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 895604)
Too much wording for things that should be mostly bullet points. Unless you are writing an article these things do not need to be explained in so much detail.
It started as a much shorter list from my notes (bullet points) for a lesson to a group of students in a college level basketball coaching class. It got a little bit wordier when I converted my notes to a "handout" to be passed out to the class after my lesson. After that it became a full fledged article that has been published many times, in many different forms, over the years, both online, and on dead trees. I get private messages, or emails, all the time from those asking permission to use my "article", when no permission is needed because most of the points on the list have been suggested by other officials, many whom are members of this Forum.

(Note: Several years ago I maintained a list of Forum members who contributed to this list, a way of giving credit where credit is due. Unfortunately, due to a computer "crash" I lost this list. I figured it was gone forever, and didn't add any new contributers to the list, figuring it wasn't fair to the old contributers. Eventually I found the list online, but I've decided not to maintain this list for fear of not listing those who contributed in between the "crash" and the "finding", i.e., the "gap".)

Adam Mon May 27, 2013 09:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 895621)
"Never, ever, ever respond to a critique with a, "Yes, but ...". (BillyMac)

I appreciate you suggestions, and I will give them a closer look, but some (some, not all) of your selections are commonly misunderstood, by coaches, players and fans, not by officials, and with the possible exception of brand new officials who have just opened the rulebook for the first time, this list is not meant for officials.

I think that your overestimating the rules knowledge of the common, garden variety, fan, many of whom are not really die hard basketball fans, but are parents who are only there to watch their sons, or daughters: "That's not out of bounds, it didn't touch anything while going over the top of the backboard".
I've never once had any grief for an OOB call on a ball going over the backboard. I guess I don't consider it a "commonly misunderstood" rule unless I hear it virtually every other game. One idiot fan per season doesn't make my radar.

Maybe this week I'll have time to sit down and make a top 20 list of how I see it. YMMV, of course.

Also, Billy, I appreciate the effort that has gone into this.

BillyMac Mon May 27, 2013 09:59am
In The Immortal Words Of Lawrence Peter Berra ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 895615)
potato, I don't know how you're going to get more thorough answers than you got in your original thread.
"It's déjà vu all over again".

Adam Mon May 27, 2013 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 895620)
BadNewsRef: From your posts, you seem to be a veteran official, who's been to the rodeo a few times. I can't believe that you never heard this, maybe from your early years working middle school games: "They need to have their hands on the ball for a few seconds."

If I had a dime for every time I heard this, or something similar, I might, just might, be able to buy a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
I've honestly never heard it, from coaches, fans, nor players. Ever.

Not in high school. Not in middle school. Not in YMCA, AAU, or any other equivalent idiot-filled league.

BillyMac Mon May 27, 2013 10:18am
Miss America Has To Be Hot, And Has To Have A Talent ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 895625)
I guess I don't consider it a "commonly misunderstood" rule unless I hear it virtually every other game. One idiot fan per season doesn't make my radar.
Therein lies the rub. One idiot fan per season, especially on a very simple call, does make my radar.

In the immortal words of a naked old man running through the streets of ancient Syracuse (no, it wasn't Jim Boeheim), "Eureka". Thanks to your post, I've finally figured out how I selected rules to post on this "list", or "article". Selections are not only based on the frequency that the rule is misunderstood, but the selection is also based on how simple the rule should be to understand, if the fan only knew the rule.

Note that there is no explanation on my "list" regarding the different types of jump stops that are legal, or illegal, in regard to the traveling rule. This rule is difficult for some officials to understand, and more so to explain, so I'm not going to expect a fan to know all the nuances of the traveling rule.

When a player executes a completely legal jump stop, and a fan yells, "travel", I'm not thinking to myself, "stupid fan", but when an inbounds pass from underneath the team's basket goes untouched into the backcourt where it is retrieved by as player from that team, and a fan yells, "backcourt", then I'm thinking, "idiot fan, if he only knew the rule".

BillyMac Mon May 27, 2013 10:23am
Time Limit For A Held Ball ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 895628)
I've honestly never heard it, from coaches, fans, nor players. Ever.
How about, "You didn't wait long enough"?

Please don't make me start a poll. Jurassic Referee would roll over in his grave. We all remember how much he loved polls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 895628)
Idiot-filled league.
Love this description, and unfortunately, many of us have been there. Thank God I no longer need the money, and can pick, and chose, the games that I really want to work, and no longer have to work games anywhere, and everywhere, to help pay the bills.

JRutledge Mon May 27, 2013 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 895624)
It started as a much shorter list from my notes (bullet points) for a lesson to a group of students in a college level basketball coaching class. It got a little bit wordier when I converted my notes to a "handout" to be passed out to the class after my lesson. After that it became a full fledged article that has been published many times, in many different forms, over the years, both online, and on dead trees. I get private messages, or emails, all the time from those asking permission to use my "article", when no permission is needed because most of the points on the list have been suggested by other officials, many whom are members of this Forum.

(Note: Several years ago I maintained a list of Forum members who contributed to this list, a way of giving credit where credit is due. Unfortunately, due to a computer "crash" I lost this list. I figured it was gone forever, and didn't add any new contributers to the list, figuring it wasn't fair to the old contributers. Eventually I found the list online, on another website, but I've decided not to maintain this list for fear of not listing those who contributed in between the "crash" and the "finding", i.e., the "gap".)
I was only making that point as to suggest how it could be cut down a little bit. Not suggesting that it has to be in every situation. Again if you are writing an article I am find with the wordiness based on where it is published. If it is put in a PowerPoint Presentation for example, you need even fewer words. In a PowerPoint situation where you are speaking, you can fill in the blanks or express how this applies. I did use your list but cut it down for that purpose because it was a little much when speaking to a room.

Peace

JRutledge Mon May 27, 2013 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by potato (Post 895613)

Is this why Le Bron James hardly gets called for traveling because theoretically speaking it's allowed?
Actually LBJ gets called for traveling quite a bit if you actually watch games he plays more than once. I have seen him called for such in about 2 or 3 consecutive possessions before.

Peace

BillyMac Mon May 27, 2013 10:37am
I Know My Limits ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 895635)
If it is put in a PowerPoint Presentation for example, you need even fewer words.
Agree 100%, which is why this will never be a PowerPoint without a lot of editing, and input, from a co-author. I, by myself, couldn't turn this into a PowerPoint, it would be too difficult for me to decide which "myths" to select, even if I could target my audience (new officials, coaches, players, or fans).

If I were to ever turn this into a PowerPoint, without a co-author, I could guarantee that 90% of my audience would be asleep by the conclusion of the presentation, and that I would never be invited back by the audience to ever make another presentation. Never, ever.

BillyMac Mon May 27, 2013 10:45am
And You May Also Be In Trouble With Major League Baseball ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 895635)
I did use your list but cut it down for that purpose because it was a little much when speaking to a room.
Without the express written consent of BillyMac?

My legal people will be in touch with your legal people tomorrow morning. I gave my people the day off today in honor of Memorial Day.

And don't try to delete your post. I took a screen shot of it, and it's safely locked up, hermetically sealed, in a #2 mayonnaise jar, on Funk and Wagnall's porch.

Raymond Mon May 27, 2013 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 895634)
How about, "You didn't wait long enough"?

Please don't make me start a poll. Jurassic Referee would roll over in his grave. We all remember how much he loved polls.
...
Still don't see it as one of the commonly/most misunderstood rules.

BillyMac Mon May 27, 2013 10:59am
Lyndon Baines Johnson ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 895636)
Actually LBJ gets called for traveling ...
No way. Please don't tell me that a basketball player has taken over the initials of one of our most active presidents, who did a lot of things that I disagreed with, but who also did a lot of thing that I agreed with. There's no way that someone who is known for being really good at basketball should take over the initials of a president who served his country through some very trying times. The sixties weren't all about flower power, hallucinogenic drugs, and free love. There were lots of real issues to deal with, and although LBJ, the real LBJ, failed, in my mind, with some of these, he was successful in many others.

Next, you'll be telling me that there's a basketball player named FDR, or JFK.


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