.3 situation, can't look good

[Nevadaref]

At the end of the game before one of mine at the LV tourney last week a situation occurred which made the officials look bad even though they got the final call right.
A kid scored with the time running out to bring his team within three, and frantically called for time-out. There was some confusion as to when the whistle blew for the TO and how much time should be on the clock for the throw-in. My buddy and I waiting to take the floor for the next game, thought about 2.7, but the game crew put up only one second.
This throw-in was muffed and deflected OOB on the sideline right in front of the opponents bench by an offensive player. The clock expired and the horn sounded, and again there was confusion amongst the crew. They huddled and finally put .3 back on the clock. I would have simply ended the game. Then my friend and I started talking about what a bad situation they could be getting into here.
Of course, the team trailing by three inbounds the ball for a catch and shoot 3-pointer, which clearly beats the horn, and banks in. They immediately waved it off, which we know is correct according to 5-2-5, but the fans and players, who don't know the rule and don't understand why a shot which clearly beats the horn is being waved off go absolutely nuts. People were all over the floor, the losing team encircled one of the officials screaming at the poor striped-shirted person.
I thought that the S.W.A.T. team was going to have to be called to get those officials safely out of the gym.
This got me thinking that there is really no way to look good when this happens.

Later in the day, I had the team which lost this game and the coach came up before the game to hello. We briefly chatted about his earlier game since he brought it up by saying that they lost a tough one earlier in the day.
I told him that I saw the finish. He said that he knew the .3 rule and wasn't upset about that call because in the excitement he simply forgot about it and didn't design a tap play, but he was really unhappy with the way the clock was handled in the final seconds. He, rightly IMO, claimed that they should have had more than 1 second after the TO. He said 2.9, I smiled and nodded. He felt they got screwed at that point. He then told me that he didn't like the .3 either because it was arbitrary. Why not .4 he asked? Then the shot would have counted. When I told him that he was fortunate to get .3, since I wouldn't have given him any time, it was his turn to smile and nod!
We went on to have a good game and his behavior was great.

[ChuckElias]

You can tell the coach next time that it's definitely not arbitrary. The NBA did a pretty detailed study about how long it takes their players to catch and release a try for goal. I don't know the exact results of the study, but the result was the .3 rule.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
The NBA did a pretty detailed study about how long it takes their players to catch and release a try for goal. I don't know the exact results of the study, but the result was the .3 rule.

The exact result of the study was that you can't catch and release a try for goal in 0.3 seconds or less.

Glad I could help.

[ChuckElias]

I think the final report may have been a little more detailed than that, JR, but thanks for distilling it for us

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

The exact result of the study was that you can't catch and release a try for goal in 0.3 seconds or less.

Glad I could help.

Not true. In NFHS, you can't catch and shoot with .3 left, but you can in the NBA.

The NBA rule is "No less than :00.3 must expire on the game clock when a player secures possession of an inbounds pass and then attempts a field goal." So, you can catch and shoot with .3 seconds left.

Glad I could help.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
[/B]

Not true. In NFHS, you can't catch and shoot with .3 left, but you can in the NBA.

The NBA rule is "No less than :00.3 must expire on the game clock when a player secures possession of an inbounds pass and then attempts a field goal." So, you can catch and shoot with .3 seconds left.

Glad I could help. [/B][/QUOTE]I humbly stand corrected,with egg on my face,and my reputation as a rules guru shattered beyond all repair.

Glad you could help.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Of course, the team trailing by three inbounds the ball for a catch and shoot 3-pointer, which clearly beats the horn, and banks in.

I don't see how anything could be "clearly" with .3 on the clock. Surely the fans can't be clear when their mind is fogged by partiality. I also wonder about the scorekeeper's neutrality.

[TH_indiana]

I agree with Nevadaref as far as not putting the 0.3 seconds on the clock. Isn't there "rule" about a time keepers delay. Something to the effect that timekeeper will have an "acceptable" lag of app. 1 second from the time the whistle blows until he/she can get the clock stopped?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by TH_indiana
I agree with Nevadaref as far as not putting the 0.3 seconds on the clock. Isn't there "rule" about a time keepers delay. Something to the effect that timekeeper will have an "acceptable" lag of app. 1 second from the time the whistle blows until he/she can get the clock stopped?

Actually, it's a case book play.

Welcome to the board!

[TH_indiana]

Thanks for the welcome!! I can tell this will be "interesting!! (now if I could ONLY learn how to make bold fonts!!!)

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

I don't see how anything could be "clearly" with .3 on the clock. Surely the fans can't be clear when their mind is fogged by partiality. I also wonder about the scorekeeper's neutrality.

First, the ball was definitely in the air when I heard the horn. They were simply slow on the clock start on this play.
Second, the timer and scorer were two HS kids from Vegas, they were there for every game in that gym, and really did a great job. Their objectivity was beyond question. They were always looking at us when we reported fouls, I never had to give a number twice, and from what I hear they only messed up the score once in something like 30 games. It also seems that this one game was also the only time they had a hard time with the clock. But boy did it make those officials look awful. I felt for them.
Third, the coach was not saying that the .3 rule was arbitrary, but that the officials' decision to put .3 back on the clock in that game was arbitrary. For example, why not put .2 or .4 up there?

[Mark Dexter]

Hey - I'm as neutral and good as I can be, but there's no way I'm starting the clock with at least 1/10th of a second reaction time.

[dhodges007]

What gym were you at? I was at the gym on Eastern...

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by dhodges007
What gym were you at? I was at the gym on Eastern...

Were you at Valley HS? Where did you stay?

I was at Mojave on the extreme north end of town.
Interesting tidbit:
How did you handle those plastic, blue wrist bands that the players were required wear? My crew simply ignored them.
On Thursday a team showed up which had played its first three games at another gym and they had them all taped down to their wrists. I saw this and asked the kids if they did this on their own or if an official made them. They said an official at another gym made them tape them.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by TH_indiana
Thanks for the welcome!! I can tell this will be "interesting!! (now if I could ONLY learn how to make bold fonts!!!)

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