Izzo & others on shot clock/adding more offense...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If more fouls were called, the game would open up for the offense and scoring would go up. You wouldn't shoot any more FT's after the initial adjustment because the teams/players would adjust how they play defense. They want to stay on the floor and will stop fouling. It is a fallacy that calling a tighter game (if everyone does it) makes the games a FT contest. It actually can make the game a great game.

I just disagree. I think foul calls are not going to open up anything if the teams are willing to play a certain way and use a lot of their bench. If you call fouls all you will do is make FTs the difference and I do not see FT shooting so good that teams feel it is not worth a try on plays to that way and raise scoring significantly. And one way that the NBA is totally different than the NCAA, players in college try to take charges.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I just disagree. I think foul calls are not going to open up anything if the teams are willing to play a certain way and use a lot of their bench. If you call fouls all you will do is make FTs the difference and I do not see FT shooting so good that teams feel it is not worth a try on plays to that way and raise scoring significantly. And one way that the NBA is totally different than the NCAA, players in college try to take charges.

Peace

Disagree all you want but a lot of the higher scoring games I've seen have been that way after the officials start the game calling it tight. The defense cleans up their tactics to avoid fouling everyone out and the offense gets more and cleaner scoring opportunities which leads to higher points.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Disagree all you want but a lot of the higher scoring games I've seen have been that way after the officials start the game calling it tight. The defense cleans up their tactics to avoid fouling everyone out and the offense gets more and cleaner scoring opportunities which leads to higher points.

OK, but that is not going to change my opinion on the issue. I watch a lot of college basketball and scoring is more about style or how much teams want to run and shoot than anything. Foul calling is not keeping teams from scoring when most teams want to slow the game down like Wisconsin who loves to use a lot of the shot clock and play for the perfect shot. And nothing you are going to do to make a team like Wisconsin play up tempo and try to score more than in the 50s.

And when I watch games and listen to the commentators, they complain all the time about the fouls that are called. There are certain guys that make every negative comment about when a hand-check is called and complain that was "cheap" or not appropriate. And then complain about the amount of fouls called. You really think guys like that are going to be OK with more fouls being called? I am sure there are coaches complaining to when their star point guard has two quick fouls in the game. I am not so convinced that more fouls is going to equal more scoring.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

OK, but that is not going to change my opinion on the issue. I watch a lot of college basketball and scoring is more about style or how much teams want to run and shoot than anything. Foul calling is not keeping teams from scoring when most teams want to slow the game down like Wisconsin who loves to use a lot of the shot clock and play for the perfect shot. And nothing you are going to do to make a team like Wisconsin play up tempo and try to score more than in the 50s.

You're mixing up two completely different issues, both of which independently have an effect on scoring. If a team doesn't want to score quickly, sure, they'll take a long time. I wouldn't say that is most teams. But, at the same time, if that team could get a good shot quicker, they'd take it. Getting that good shot quicker just might happen if they know the defense wouldn't be permitted get away with so much contact....but they wait until they can get a clean shot without risking contact with a nocall.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And when I watch games and listen to the commentators, they complain all the time about the fouls that are called. There are certain guys that make every negative comment about when a hand-check is called and complain that was "cheap" or not appropriate. And then complain about the amount of fouls called. You really think guys like that are going to be OK with more fouls being called? I am sure there are coaches complaining to when their star point guard has two quick fouls in the game. I am not so convinced that more fouls is going to equal more scoring.

Peace

You miss the point, it will NOT lead to more fouls being called. That is the fallacy. When games are called tighter, consistently, the players will adjust and not commit any more fouls. Most players are coached to play as aggressively as they are allowed such that they may get 2-4 fouls but try to avoid 5. If the game is called tighter and they expect it, they don't play as physical. As a result, you'll end up with a similar number of FTs, the game doesn't get any longer, the offense opens up, and the scores go up by 10-20 points.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You're mixing up two completely different issues, both of which independently have an effect on scoring. If a team doesn't want to score quickly, sure, they'll take a long time. I wouldn't say that is most teams. But, at the same time, if that team could get a good shot quicker, they'd take it. Getting that good shot quicker just might happen if they know the defense wouldn't be permitted get away with so much contact....but they wait until they can get a clean shot without risking contact with a nocall.

Well you are not going to get a clean shot when defenders are willing to defend your ability for that clean shot. And you are not going to get a clean shot when the only shots most players are willing to take are 3 pointers and layup-dunks at the basket. Big men almost never take the 10 foot shot anymore like Patrick Ewing. When you take contested shots, you will have contested defense.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You miss the point, it will NOT lead to more fouls being called. That is the fallacy. When games are called tighter, consistently, the players will adjust and not commit any more fouls. Most players are coached to play as aggressively as they are allowed such that they may get 2-4 fouls but try to avoid 5. If the game is called tighter and they expect it, they don't play as physical. As a result, you'll end up with a similar number of FTs, the game doesn't get any longer, the offense opens up, and the scores go up by 10-20 points.

But they haven't adjusted yet. There are a lot more perimeter fouls and the game the scoring went down this year. All I am saying is offensive concepts have changed. And if teams like Michigan and Louisville were to play the up tempo style, I think you would have more scoring. And it would help if teams took more mid-range shots that often are open because everyone is defending the 3. I do not even believe in the "call the game tighter" as fouls are only fouls when a player is put at a disadvantage. Offensive player put their heads down and go to the basket as if no one is suppose to defend them. I do not think we should just call fouls because there is contact and the defenders did nothing wrong. If anything there are more fouls on offensive players that were usually called blocks on the defense. It is time for players to deversify their game and not every play has to be a highlight or dunk.

Peace