Wichita State-Louisville block (Armstead 1st half)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I honestly think the "absolute" part was to make officials get over the idea of just looking at this from and advantage/disadvantage standpoint. I also agree that there is some room for usage of advantage/disadvantage, it is just not and excuse to pass on obvious fouls. Also RSBQ is used in Adam's philosophy so that requires judgment to decide when those things take place.

Peace

RSBQ is just another way of delineating exactly what "advantage" looks like.

[OKREF]

Just food for thought here. Does the defense even get two hands on the offense here? It is close, but it looks like they aren't on him at the same time. Hard to tell though.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

RSBQ is just another way of delineating exactly what "advantage" looks like.

I agree, but he used RSBQ with the "absolutes" portion of that presentation. At least it was used when it came to handchecking which is what "two hands" was considered under that philosophy.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I agree, but he used RSBQ with the "absolutes" portion of that presentation. At least it was used when it came to handchecking which is what "two hands" was considered under that philosophy.

Peace

Fair enough. I get that handchecking has a much lower standard for determining advantage. It's harder to tell, so the threshold is lower; that makes sense to me.

The problem, though, with calling them absolutes, is the same problem we get with attempts at "zero tolerance" (regardless of what we are refusing to tolerate). Remove discretion, and you get all sorts of unfair decisions: like this call (IMO, of course).

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

Either you're completely misunderstanding Adams, or Adams hasn't read the rule book.

The third option, I suppose, is that Adams only thinks this way when it concerns two hands on the ball handler, and advantage/disadvantage still applies to every other contact situation.

As Camron indicates, this is the problem with absolutes. The absolute wasn't developed for this type of play. Even a delay of half a second would have allowed this play to finish without a whistle. If Adams wants this called, so be it, but I wouldn't.

It's the coaches who want 2 hands called every time. Adams is just telling us to enforce it like the rules committee wants it called.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

Fair enough. I get that handchecking has a much lower standard for determining advantage. It's harder to tell, so the threshold is lower; that makes sense to me.

The problem, though, with calling them absolutes, is the same problem we get with attempts at "zero tolerance" (regardless of what we are refusing to tolerate). Remove discretion, and you get all sorts of unfair decisions: like this call (IMO, of course).

We can never move away from some discretion on contact and fouls. There is always something to decide. I think all Adams wanted to do is to give us something rules and philosophy based to make these calls as opposed to passing like we would always do previous to his coming to the coordinator position.

Peace

[johnny d]

Jeff, based on the meetings I have attended and what I have heard from clinicians at camps, assignment guys, and D1 officials, this isnt the case with Adam's mandate that 2 hands on the ball handler be called every time. It has always been presented to me and been my understanding that the reason he went so far as to call this an absolute is to take out any judgement as far as rsbq on this type of play. He really wants this called every time. This is different than some of the other types of plays that are frequently on his video updates and seem to be described in a different tone. I am not arguing this is the best way to address this type of play, I am just saying it seems this is the way that Adam's wants these plays called.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Jeff, based on the meetings I have attended and what I have heard from clinicians at camps, assignment guys, and D1 officials, this isnt the case with Adam's mandate that 2 hands on the ball handler be called every time. It has always been presented to me and been my understanding that the reason he went so far as to call this an absolute is to take out any judgement as far as rsbq on this type of play. He really wants this called every time. This is different than some of the other types of plays that are frequently on his video updates and seem to be described in a different tone. I am not arguing this is the best way to address this type of play, I am just saying it seems this is the way that Adam's wants these plays called.

And the context of the situations being addressed was perimeter play or post of play. I don't think he ever intended it apply to a situation where the "offended' player was about to start his shooting motion for an easy shot but for a defender happening to brush him with two hands as he went by....killing the easy shot.

And even if he meant ABSOLUTE for all situations, this just exposes the downside of absolutes. When you make it absolute, you're going to have unintended consequences. In this case, it penalized the shooter. Absolutes are certainly always defensible when applied but they are often bad ideas.