I do not care about her comments either. Just put her down as another coach that complained about a situation without taking responsibility for her actions.

She is lucky she did not get T'd in that game. She had to come back from a big deficit that her coaching appeared to create. They took away her best player and she had no coaching answer that worked. So if she wants to complain about the officiating, what else is new? The officials after IMO the bad charge call put her team on the line to win the game and then her players fouled the UL player and sent them to the line to actually win the game. I really do not concern myself with her point of view. I can think a call was bad in the game and not think it cost a team the game.

Peace

Right, except that the *whole* team was huddled with coach, including the player who was supposed to be at the line ready to shoot her FT. Her teammates don't have to be there, but doesn't the shooter have to be there?

A Louisville player did foul out, but in the video you can see all 5 Louisville players standing on the court ready to play (4 of them in their lane spaces) and the ref goes toward the Baylor bench and tweets her whistle to get a shooter....

Coach Mulkey and Gino Areama (?) are so over the top and really do a disservice to their programs when they act like this. They act like petulant children.

It looked like Mulkey was ripping off her jacket to have a throw down with Barlow. I am quite surprised she didn't get T'd.

For the officials that say this was a good call, you need to have some understanding as to what the NCAA is teaching. On B/C plays they don't want us to reward players that are flopping, the preference is a no-call, and if it happens again call them for a block. Contact is supposed to be evaluated on a To and Through basis. The contact was to (if that) and the T reacted to the over the top flop. Unfortunately she had the worse look of the 3 officials.

As for the last foul on Griner. The L just looked really bad on the double clutch and lateness of the call. For those of you that say it was the L's or the C's call to make, in those situations the entire crew is going to have an opinion on the play because they are all watching the same thing everyone else is....THE BALL. If the C does not have a whistle, then the L will. He had the choice of 2 defenders, the C had 2 defenders to look through, making it a tough call for her to make.

Just because the C can make a call does not mean the L cannot make a call. That sounds like a cop out to me on many levels. Even in the NCAA Men's side where they say the L takes these calls it does not mean that the other officials ignore a foul. They only talk about the L taking the call if there is a double whistle, not swallow your whistle. And the L has to anticipate there is something going to happen.

Peace

We are in agreement Rut

And what else would you suggest the ref should do?

Besides, which is it?

Were there four or five players huddled with the coach?

I'm going to open up a can of worms just to understand better.

Concerning the call at 16 seconds is there any procedure, allowance or mechanic where either the C, or the L, can go to the T to discuss the play?

If I'm a C in a situation like this and I had no foul and I know 100% that the T is wrong can we discuss it, find out what each other had, and then if the T wants to, change the call to nothing?

By asking I'm not saying it should be done but just simply asking to understand the pluses and minuses of doing so.

And I'll say this, out of the crew Steratore is only one in the clips I saw who wasn't "bad".

He ran a long distance to at least address the taunting situation that the Lead should have T'd up. He had the best view of the flop at 16.0 seconds and correctly no-called it. I think he was the one who addressed the kick ball on the throw-in and put the correct time back on the clock. He called the foul on Louisville with 9 seconds left. And, though late and tentative, he's the only one who put a whistle on Griner foul with 2 second left.

But this might be a case where everyone goes down with the ship.

In Mich's defense, he didn't say he'd worked college ball... just that he'd worked at college. I think we're all assuming he doesn't mean basketball.

A lot of us aren't at their level but we've received the same training. I see many guys working the NIT and NCAA tourney who took the same training path I am currently on. It's what keeps my head up when I sometimes get discouraged about not being at a certain level that I want to be at. And one of the guys who I am in direct contact with badly kicked a call in the Sweet 16.

In fact, I would say most of the officials we see on TV this late in the season are no longer doing any training, they are mostly just teaching and observing in the off-season.

Full disclosure here - I was rooting against Baylor, and am among the last to jump on the officials who have made it to games like these. That said, this was a debacle. 2 of the officials looked like guys I might work with the first few weeks of a season before they realize they can't hack it and give up. Seriously - they were a complete mess and looked entirely out of place during most of the game. A disservice to a game of this magnitude.

I guess you can discuss anything, but what is that going to do? You have an opinion and they have an opinion. And we could do that all day and every call. Not a good way to officiate.

Peace

Since this has still been moving. . .

- The kick-ball call at 16 seconds where they come to talk. You HAVE to do that because by rule, its an illegal touch, nuff said. If I work with any partner and they come and ask me if the ball was kicked and the clock ran, rest assured, after the game, I'm going to thank them for it, and not be upset that they came to talk to me about it. . .

If any of us are working a game like that where every play and situation has impact and could affect the outcome of the game, whether it takes 3 seconds or 3 minutes in talking to get it right, that's what we have to do because its about the game.

Now, that being said, do I feel there should be a time limit when going to look at the monitor like they have in the NFL - that, I believe, will be a discussion that both mens' and womens' committees will have after the tournament is over. . .

All of us have personalities as well and those people that are working those types of games, for the most part, many of them are severely "Type A", so when you put 3 of those Type A's together - sometimes its great for the game, and other times, well. . .(please see Hess-Stuart on Marquette-UConn game), etc etc. . .

Bottom line for me is I'd much rather work with someone who isn't "safe" and says whats in their gut on the floor than to be that person and come into the locker room in postgame and say it after the fact. . .

Adam, I'm not sure what you are asking ("which is it?"). There are 5 Baylor players huddled with the coach. There are 4 Louisville players lined up in lane spaces. There is one Louisville player outside the 3-point line, out toward half-court. I never suggested that there were four players huddled with the coach....

As for what to do? I don't know. I thought people here might have some insight as to the right way to handle it. On the one hand, I don't think you can do much other than what she did (step toward the huddle and tweet); a T under those circumstances might be overly officious. On the other hand, to let the whole team huddle (including the shooter) while everyone else is ready to resume play is giving an unfair advantage to Baylor which, as I mentioned, had no time outs left at that point. But the graciousness of the officials toward Baylor was not something Coach Mulkey emphasized in her post-game press conference....

Based on the one time that I saw the clip (so this might not be right), Baylor was huddling because the Louisville player had fouled out. Once the player let, and the official let them know that, they came out. The game wasn't delayed.

What the official did appeared to be good game management. Calling an immediate T for the FT shooter not being in the circle at the exact instant the player was replaced would have led to even more Ts.

That what I saw. Baylor was huddled and the next shot is of the Louisville player still headed towards her bench.

The only real issue I have in the above clip is the charge. That was a flop for the ages. In no way shape or form do I see a charge.

The other foul calls were all fine. No issue with them.

That was the C's or the L's. There is no way the T should have ever come in on that play. The defender was in the lane and didn't come in with the drive. That is usually the L's.

It would have been a delay of game warning first, not a TF

I'm not sure you, or anyone, could, when reviewing this play via video review find the point at which the defender established LGP prior to the shooter leaving the floor.

Are there no rules in the NCAA about how many coaches can be standing? That Baylor bench is a mess; there are a minimum of 4 coaches standing the entire time.

Regarding the play, charge looked weak, even weaker when you consider it came from the T. The guy at C was probably not happy with that reach, he was looking right at the contact and had nothing.

On the final foul on Griner, I'm not so sure that was a foul. THe offensive player's knee buckles when she jumps which make the whole play look strange, but there wasn't much contact. If there was a foul it was on the first degender, but she looks like she misses.

High pressure stage, and a tough call on the spot though. Would love to see some of the other clips from this game though.

Rut, I agree with you too. The final foul was the C's primary and I'm guessing she didn't have a whistle because she really couldn't see the contact. Secondary is the L and we're told to wait a beat to give the C a chance but we're also supposed to anticipate what our partner can't see. I'm guessing the L held off because there was no way - in his mind - the C couldn't see the contact. Thankfully, he got it.

IMHO, Steratore was the absolutely WORST official on the floor. Forget the fact that this game was WAY too physical and bordered on being out of control for large stretches of the game....

Let's be specific:
1) Steratore DID NOT issue a T when the UL player scored the layup and taunted Greiner.
2) Steratore DID NOT call the PC on Baylor late in the game (as the L, Barlow was foreced to come and get it).
3) Steratore DID NOT assess a T to the Baylor HC after the late PC foul. He was the C and was clearly in a position to penalize the Baylor coach in the exact same way the UL coach was penalized after complaining about a PC foul at approx. 2:00 left in the game.
4) To his credit, he DID make the final foul call of the game w/ under :03 remaining, but clearly DID NOT want to make the call as he "double clutched" his signal and waited until the play finished, the ball hit the ground out of bounds, started to bounce up in the air, and THEN sheepishly blew his whistle for the foul.

This game is the perfect example of the mantra that: "99% of the problems in a game occur as the result of not blowing the whistle enough, rather than too much". Overall, this crew performed poorly for virtually the entire game; and Steratore had the worst performance of all.

I really don't anyone of them was really worse than the other.

1. I don't believe he was the one that was the one right there. Didn't he come in from elsewhere to seperate them?

2. It wasn't a PC, it was a gigantic flop.

3. Any of the 3 could have T'd her up. If I am the lead, or the trail and I see this I am coming in to get it.

4. Late or not, the right call was made. We see late whistles all the time, how many times have you seen a guy wait to see if the shot goes in, and then blow the whistle. The thing that looked the worst was the double clutch.

1. Not sure which official was L and which was C on that play, but that failure falls on all three. Steratore was not alone in the middle of the players, I do remember that.
This is not evidence that he was the worst, as they all missed it.
2. That was a bad call, he was right to pass on it.
3. Again, this falls on all of them. That tirade was seen by my grandmother in Des Moines, and she wasn't even watching the game.
4. He made a crew saving call. Sure, he double pumped on it as he was, I think, anticipating a double whistle from the C. His late call and double pump looked bad, but he made the call. You can't use this as evidence he was the worst official out there because the primary official missed it first and he bailed her out.

Two points you fail to see. FOUR wrong calls, in this game, doesn't even get you on the radar of bad officials - his partners were in the double digits. Of the four you mention, 1 was a GOOD no-call, 2 could/should have been gotten by partners, and the one you give to his credit is actually related to the worst call he made (at least, the MANNER in which it was made).

Steratore was the C during this transition play. Not only did he SEE the UL player get off the ground and get in Greiner's face...he sprinted from his C position apporx. 20ft to separate the two players. His whole reason for getting between the two players was because he saw what was happening and did not assess the T.

He witnessed the ENTIRE post foul interaction! This is one of the my primary pieces of evidence that he was a reluctant participant in the entire game. Rather than effectively officiate and control the game, he recoiled. This game was played at 1 or 2 "notches" above his level.

And again, none of the officials in this game get more blame than the others for missing that call. The L was right there on the call as well, and she didn't get it either.

By the way...
 

I do plan to get the relevant clips from this game posted. Hopefully I will be able to get a decent internet stream from ESPN360 sometime in the next millenium.

On the last transition drive to the basket I sure would have liked to have had the C show a little more hustle to get good position. Once BG got beat past mid court, it was obvious where the play was going.

How about a quick rotation from the lead?

No. I think the L was where they needed to be. If it had been a transition post up maybe but not a transition play like this one. MAYBE close down some, but that's splitting hairs IMO.

How was the game officiated in regards to Griner. It seems there are a lot of complaints even from non Baylor fans.
Listen to RG3 people!!!:D

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...r-baylor-loss/

Not reading the article. But Griner was popped in the face on one play and no foul was called and another time (or maybe in the same sequence) a Louisville player was swinger her arms wildly (air punches) in the direction of Griner.

I also saw a lot of sequences where Griner was elbowed and nothing appeared to be called. I was wondering if the officials knew that she would be the focus of the game?

Peace

Something I try to watch out for because I noticed it was a weakness of mine, is the handling of the bigs. Yes, there will be more contact and some physical play should be allowed. But I found I was letting too much of it go and somehow getting blinders on-- maybe "oh they are good and big so they can handle themselves"
Perhaps the refs did that for the Baylor game? It seems she got hit more than she should have.

If I remember right, that was after Griner, threw an elbow. I think.

Quite possible. A lot of stuff went on that didn't get addressed.

Like theLouisville player squaring up and taunting her ?

Just like Griner, and Simms do all the time. Lets face it. Baylor got a dose of their own medicine and for whatever reason it was allowed to happen. Is that taunting given a T every time it happens, I would bet on no.

I know on the Men's side in the college conferences I work there is just about a ZERO tolerance for taunting. I can't speak for the Women's side.

They don't square up on other players like the Louisville player did. They get all excited and say what they are going to say as they walk away. What happened the other day was an obvious T.
IMO, this is what happens when you treat a tournament game differently then a regular season game. 'Its the Sweet 16, lets cut them some slack' seemed to be the motto. Could be wrong, but its what it appeared to me.

So I'll speak for the women's side...we may not get everything (no one does) but we'll get it more often than some might think. Reason? Women react differently to it than men and I've had female players - former and current - and assignors tell me the same thing. Guys get into each other's faces, talk for a little then it's over. Women hold a grudge. You never know when the retaliation is coming, but it is.

Back to the Schimmel/Griner situation: Among the notes NCAAW received from Debbie Williamson this season was one concerning sportsmanship, complete with video. It sits on Arbiter for all of us to see. That's why I was surprised Schimmel didn't catch a T for yapping at Griner after the +1.

I've also gone back and watched the first half of the game but this time with the sound up. At the second media time out (11:19 1st) the analyst said the alternate called the entire crew over to talk about what was happening on the court and heading into the time out there was yapping between four players (two each side) as they went to their benches. Alternates do a number of things during a game but I don't recall them ever calling a huddle in a non-review situation. I'd bet any amount of $ a call came down from on high to get things cleaned up.

Interesting blog post that correctly eludes to the rules related to coaches discussing the officiating in press conferences:

Kim Mulkey: Losing a game, losing your dignity | Berry Tramel's Blog

Interesting:

"Mulkey asked media to query her about the officiating, then ripped the officials for a variety of calls and the overall tone of the game. “The game started out way too physical,” Mulkey said. “I thought all three of (the officials), if they go past this round of officiating, it’ll be sad for the game.”

You want to know why leagues and organizations and conferences discipline coaches and players who criticize officiating? That’s why, right there. Because they will lose their minds and question the integrity of the game. Which is why Mulkey should be in line for a hefty fine."

I listen to him on the radio every day on my drive home from work. He said yesterday that this was the worst display of sportsmanship he has ever seen from a coach after a game.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything worse at the college level.

She told the media to ask her questions about officiating knowing she'd catch a hefty fine for doing so. I hope she's not disappointed. I thought the blog post was right on.

I've seen coaches say a lot worse and be a lot less specific about their complaints. Mulkey should have been T'd for sure. But in her post game conference she didn't rattle off bunch of abstract generalizations. Except for initially not thinking her team committed a foul at 2 seconds she said things about the game that a lot of us have already agreed with. And even with the last foul she asked reporters if she was wrong about it not being a foul and the next reporter said it was most definitely foul.

Mulkey will be dealt with. I'm more concerned about some of the stuff that went on in that game that the officiating crew didn't address, including Mulkey's strip tease.

Her comment about the prospect of any of those three officials moving on was, to me, the culmination of her tantrum.

In retrospect does the strip tease act really surprise anyone. Have you seen some of those outfits:eek: isn't there a country western song about being a size 10 trying to fit into a size 8? If not, there should be. She's dating a C/W singer.

Again, she'll get disciplined for her comments but based on what we've seen of that game do a lot of us expect those 3 officials to move on to the Final Four?

Imho
 

OK, it's time for me to comment. I saw the entire game. The b/c call at the game's end was incorrect call in my book. Hey, that can happen, and we can disagree over that one. What surprised me was the Louisville strategy used to play Griner, and it wasn't picked up on by the crew. They were using 2 or 3 players to body her and push her around as much as possible and make the officials call it. Replays were run that showed Griner getting pushed and grabbed with no whistles. The air swing by the L-ville player that BNR mentioned is just one example. Overall, there was a lot physical play on both sides that was passed.