time out during bounce to free thrower
 

Little confused about disposal of ball to free throw shooter.
Can an opposing coach call a time out after the ref has bounced the ball but it has not yet been caught by the free throw shooter.

thanks...

I wouldn't make it harder than it has to be. In your opinion did he call it while you had it or when the player had it. Personally, once I bounce the ball the coach "didn't get it requested in time"

Maybe these rules will help:

Rule 4-4
ART. 7 . . . A ball is at the disposal of a player when it is:
a. Handed to a thrower or free thrower.
b. Caught by a player after it is bounced to him/her.
c. Placed on the floor at the spot.
d. Available to a player after a goal

Rule 6-1
ART. 2 . . . The ball becomes live when:
a. On a jump ball, the tossed ball leaves the official’s hand(s).
b. On a throw-in, it is at the disposal of the thrower.
c. On a free throw, it is at the disposal of the free thrower.

Rule 5-8
Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official:
ART. 3 . . . Grants a player’s/head coach’s oral or visual request for a time-out, such request being granted only when:
a. The ball is at the disposal or in control of a player of his/her team.
b. The ball is dead, unless replacement of a disqualified, or injured player(s),
or a player directed to leave the game is pending, and a substitute(s) is available and required.

so technically, he could call a timeout during the bounce, since he did not catch it yet...

Why not follow the rules?

Correct.

At least you're consistent.

If I've already released the ball to put it at the disposal of the free thrower then by the time I verify that the head coach is the one calling the time out the ball is in the shooters hands.

Consistently bad?

Consistent in that the majority of his posts state that he'll invoke a rule that should not apply in the case being discussed and/or flat out invent a rule if necessary. He's going to call whatever he wants to call and it's obvious from his posts and his arguments when called out that he really doesn't care what the rules are and has no intention of learning here.

You guys can refuse this time out request if you like. Is that an annoying and delaying time for a time out? Heck yes. Are you going to be in trouble for doing so? Probably not unless an observer happens to notice.

But just don't try to pretend you're going by the book or have any rule support for doing so when you do it. Cause you don't.

You'll be mad at me then if I'm the C or T in your game b/c I'll be blowing my whistle saying I acknowledged the HC's request before the ball was at A1's disposal. ;)

I cannot even believe this is even a debate.

Peace

Think it through a moment, are you really consistent in the "too late now" application?

You know the coach asked when he was allowed, but your whistle was (rightly) delayed while you verified the (timely) request came from an authorized source. You never grant this timeout?

+1

Another example, though not as dramatic as some, of the need to further define when a timeout is "granted."

Me either. Grant the freaking timeout and be done with it.

I have never known it to be much of an issue in the first place. When as a coach or player been in such confusion they do not ask for a timeout well in advance of this becoming a issue in the first place. That is why you take your time anyway.

Peace

The one thing I hate about this forum is all the perfect officials in here.....you guys keep being perfect, I'll keep enjoying what I do

those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

This kind of says it all, doesn't it? Personal enjoyment trumps learning to do it right. Awesome.

For the record, I think the rest of us who aren't inventing rules also enjoy what we do (and those that don't move on and do something else eventually).

I'm not sure how the two things you list have anything to do with one another.

Who's Buried In Granted's Tomb ???
 

Do we have to go through this again? Wait? We never did get any closure the last time. I guess it's alright, but first I have to get something:

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.47803...16275&pid=15.1

I actually had the OP scenario happen in a MS boys game this year. As the ball is bouncing to the shooter, defensive coach requests a TO. T hits his whistle as the shooter catches it, I get the ball ball back, and T reports the TO.

Shooter's coach is a highly rated local official, and he didn't say a word.

The really neat thing is, I did it right, and I still enjoyed working that game.

You enjoy knowingly doing something wrong?

It isn't exactly a hard concept to know when the ball becomes live for the FT.

I happen to enjoy being able to do it AND do it right.

Do you also enjoy calling a 5 second violation in the backcourt or travelling on a throwin?

(Subscribe)

I'm perfect and I enjoy what I do. At least that's what my wife observes :cool:

I think maybe you've gotten too used to the laid back atmosphere of Montana hoops. Things will change when you hit Florida.

OK, maybe a post that could have been better expressed. I'm simply saying that after I release the ball to the shooter there isn't a lot of time elapsed before it's in his hand/at his/her disposal. Not much time there to hear the request, look over and respond to it.

If trail, usually facing the table/bench area, sees it and grants the TO then fine.

It's not clear in the book (thus the many discussions we've had on similar plays), but I think all that need be done is make the request during that interval (and you becoming aware that it was made then -- even if that "awareness" happens just after the ball is caught)

To me, the timeout occurs when I hear the a valid request...even if it takes me a moment to sound the whistle.

What we're saying is you don't need time for all that. You only need time to hear it. If you hear it before the player catches the ball, but you verify it as he's catching it (or even after), you can blow your whistle (respond to it) after the shooter has it. We do this all the time with timeout requests.

Coach calls timeout just before the defense gets their hands on the ball and ties it up. You give him the timeout because it happened before the held ball.

Coach calls timeout just before his shooter releases a try. You blow the whistle while the shot is in the air.

Coach calls timeout just before his player releases a pass. You blow the whistle just as the defender catches the pass and starts running down court.

This play is no different.

Just because it was requested, doesn't mean it is granted. I may or may not grant a time out in these situations, depending on when I heard the request, verified if needed, and checked the status of the ball.

If I hear it when it's allowed to be granted, I'm granting it regardless of what happens between that moment and when I blow my whistle.

I really don't know any officials who do it differently.

Truly, it should ONLY matter when you heard it.

Is it no longer a foul if you don't blow the whistle while the contact is still occurring?

If you're taking a lot of time to do these things, you need to increase your awareness and recognition skills, IMO.

I don't take a long time, and don't always have to check status of ball, or look to see who called it. I know there are times when a time out is coming and I am aware of them.

I think you completely missed his point. The amount of time you take is irrelevant.

Oh, no. Not this again.... :D