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-   -   Pointing Mechanic (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/94323-pointing-mechanic.html)

packersowner Sun Mar 10, 2013 09:34pm

Pointing Mechanic
 
Saw a mechanic over the weekend at a hs playoff game by a guy that I believe works college ( had his cca jacket on for warmups), he often pointed the other direction after a made bucket. So I have noticed the are a few NCAA guys that do this as well since then. Is this leftover from signaling a two pointer or a college mechanic?

rockyroad Sun Mar 10, 2013 09:46pm

Guy was wearing his CCA jacket at a High School game? Wow.

Not an official mechanic in NFHS or NCAA-W.

deecee Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by packersowner (Post 884071)
Saw a mechanic over the weekend at a hs playoff game by a guy that I believe works college ( had his cca jacket on for warmups), he often pointed the other direction after a made bucket. So I have noticed the are a few NCAA guys that do this as well since then. Is this leftover from signaling a two pointer or a college mechanic?

I do this on the rare occassion there is contact that I think is a flop or not call worthy and the player on the ground looks at me. It's just a reminder to him to get his butt up as his team is one man down on defense.

Adam Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 884075)
Guy was wearing his CCA jacket at a High School game? Wow.

Pretty much says it all.

jeschmit Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:54pm

I've done this on a RARE occasion, and it's more for my partners than anything else. If I rotated late, or if I think they didn't recognize my rotation (seeing that they are a very low T), I'll point after a made basket and say their name to make sure they know I'm on their side of the floor.

I know on tape it looks like I'm just pointing, but that's why I do it. No other reason to do it though...

JetMetFan Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 884081)
Pretty much says it all.

Ditto. I remember when I lived in GA ('96-00) the higher-ups in our association got on ALL the college guys about wearing their CCAs to H.S. games. The message was "don't big-time your non-college partners."

deecee Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 884092)
Ditto. I remember when I lived in GA ('96-00) the higher-ups in our association got on ALL the college guys about wearing their CCAs to H.S. games. The message was "don't big-time your non-college partners."

I dont see how a college patch is big timing. If he acted like a jack a$$ then that's different but I personally wouldn't care. I'm just not that sensitive to these issues.

JetMetFan Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 884095)
I dont see how a college patch is big timing. If he acted like a jack a$$ then that's different but I personally wouldn't care. I'm just not that sensitive to these issues.

It's all about perception. It gives the appearance the guy with the CCA patch is automatically better than those without.

deecee Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 884096)
It's all about perception. It gives the appearance the guy with the CCA patch is automatically better than those without.

I get the appearance of perception and what it means to many. I have a hard time getting my hands around a concept that is not real is what it boils down to (plus perception is very arbitrary and subjective). It's just me personally but I always let the person's actions speak for themselves and I can see how some would take offense I personally don't.

And on a side note I would automatically assume a college official is (and should) be a better official that a HS one (practically speaking not always true but this should be the case). Much like how an NBA player would be better than a college player.

Nevadaref Mon Mar 11, 2013 01:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by packersowner (Post 884071)
Saw a mechanic over the weekend at a hs playoff game by a guy that I believe works college ( had his cca jacket on for warmups), he often pointed the other direction after a made bucket. So I have noticed the are a few NCAA guys that do this as well since then. Is this leftover from signaling a two pointer or a college mechanic?

It is a holdover from the initial implementation of the shot clock. It is simply an indication to the shot clock operator to reset and prepare to start a new shot clock period for the ensuing possession.

Officials used to do this on steals too.

AremRed Mon Mar 11, 2013 01:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 884100)
It is a holdover from the initial implementation of the shot clock. It is simply an indication to the shot clock operator to reset and prepare to start a new shot clock period for the ensuing possession.

Officials used to do this on steals too.

I see this done in college and the NBA on a regular basis. Are you sure it is a holdover? If so, why do many officials do it? I can't see so many high level officials doing a mechanic that is unnecessary.

Adam Mon Mar 11, 2013 01:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanwestref (Post 884102)
I see this done in college and the NBA on a regular basis. Are you sure it is a holdover? If so, why do many officials do it? I can't see so many high level officials doing a mechanic that is unnecessary.

Because 1. They've been officiating a long time. Or 2. They learned under guys who have been doing it a long time.

BillyMac Mon Mar 11, 2013 06:43am

The Sharks And The Jets ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 884096)
It's all about perception. It gives the appearance the guy with the CCA patch is automatically better than those without.

I keep thinking about somebody bringing a gun to a knife fight.

Bad Zebra Mon Mar 11, 2013 07:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 884075)
Guy was wearing his CCA jacket at a High School game? Wow.

Not an official mechanic in NFHS or NCAA-W.

Probably reports numbers with two hands too.

bob jenkins Mon Mar 11, 2013 07:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 884104)
Because 1. They've been officiating a long time. Or 2. They learned under guys who have been doing it a long time.

Or because (insert big name here) does it and I want people to think I am just as good as (insert big name) and now it's a habit.

ronny mulkey Mon Mar 11, 2013 07:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 884092)
Ditto. I remember when I lived in GA ('96-00) the higher-ups in our association got on ALL the college guys about wearing their CCAs to H.S. games. The message was "don't big-time your non-college partners."

Fan,

Now, everybody wears the CCA jacket down here. What group were you in back in 2000?

grunewar Mon Mar 11, 2013 08:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 884095)
I dont see how a college patch is big timing.

Then why do it?

rockyroad Mon Mar 11, 2013 08:55am

There is no reason to wear the CCA jacket to a high school game. None...forgot your HS jacket? Then don't wear a jacket or borrow one from the JV guys.

Can't imagine any college conference supervisor being pleased about one of their officials pulling that kind of crap.

Bad Zebra Mon Mar 11, 2013 09:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 884095)
I dont see how a college patch is big timing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 884140)
There is no reason to wear the CCA jacket to a high school game. None...


Let's all be honest here. The ONLY reason to wear it is big timing. And you're correct Rocky...any supervisor would probably have a fit if they found one of their assignees wearing one to a HS game.

Adam Mon Mar 11, 2013 09:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 884140)
There is no reason to wear the CCA jacket to a high school game. None...forgot your HS jacket? Then don't wear a jacket or borrow one from the JV guys.

Can't imagine any college conference supervisor being pleased about one of their officials pulling that kind of crap.

Honestly, what it tells me is either a) you only want to buy one jacket, in which case you aren't really getting a full college schedule. Or b) you want to show your partners that you work college.

You may as well just tell me you're doing the assigner a favor by working this game with me.

26 Year Gap Mon Mar 11, 2013 09:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 884142)
Honestly, what it tells me is either a) you only want to buy one jacket, in which case you aren't really getting a full college schedule. Or b) you want to show your partners that you work college.

You may as well just tell me you're doing the assigner a favor by working this game with me.

This. ^^^^^

Camron Rust Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 884140)
There is no reason to wear the CCA jacket to a high school game. None...forgot your HS jacket? Then don't wear a jacket or borrow one from the JV guys.

Can't imagine any college conference supervisor being pleased about one of their officials pulling that kind of crap.

It may be that some HS organizations have chosen to use the CCA jacket as their jacket. If so, then there is nothing to see here.

rockyroad Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 884163)
It may be that some HS organizations have chosen to use the CCA jacket as their jacket. If so, then there is nothing to see here.

Why would a HS organization be wearing Collegiate Commissioners jackets? For the same reasons Adam and BZ posted above.

Multiple Sports Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:17am

No need for it in hs / college bb...

In one of the men's NCAA bulletins, they asked us to not put our hand striaght up to indicate verticality.....

Just like guys slapping hands to indicate blocked shot.....

Just like guys telling defenders to get up when they flop.....

Only place where they want that done is in the Big South ( ex NBA guy super. )

Heck I heard Forte has guys standing in center circle during warm ups.....

26 Year Gap Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:49am

Reminds me of the big timer who is the sole occupant on my scratch list. Tried to get on me about letting everyone know whether the TO was 30 or full. Not my fault he was too busy being impressed with himself to notice me signalling to him that very information. After being chided for making a call in my area as the C, I decided that the 2nd game working with him was no better than the first, and that there would not be a third. He leads the league in blocks I am told.

Adam Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 884163)
It may be that some HS organizations have chosen to use the CCA jacket as their jacket. If so, then there is nothing to see here.

That's possible, but it would hardly be worth noting in the OP if that were the case.

Camron Rust Mon Mar 11, 2013 03:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 884198)
That's possible, but it would hardly be worth noting in the OP if that were the case.

Regular season, I'd agree. But in the playoffs here, each official wears thier association's jacket, whatever that is. If you didn't know what each association wears, it would be easy to think some guy was wearing his CCA jacket when it was just his HS jacket.

rockyroad Mon Mar 11, 2013 04:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 884240)
Regular season, I'd agree. But in the playoffs here, each official wears thier association's jacket, whatever that is. If you didn't know what each association wears, it would be easy to think some guy was wearing his CCA jacket when it was just his HS jacket.

The CCA jackets say CCA on them...it ain't that hard to tell them apart.

Bad Zebra Mon Mar 11, 2013 04:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 884186)
...He leads the league in blocks I am told.

:p That's funny. Didn't ya love working with that guy?

ref3808 Mon Mar 11, 2013 04:11pm

There is no justification for wearing a collegiate jacket at a HS game. Not in the playoffs, not in the regular season, not in a scrimmage. None. Zero.

BillyMac Mon Mar 11, 2013 05:39pm

Man Of Conviction ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ref3808 (Post 884248)
There is no justification for wearing a collegiate jacket at a HS game. Not in the playoffs, not in the regular season, not in a scrimmage. None. Zero.

C'mon ref3808. Don't be so wishy washy. Tell us what you really think.

Adam Mon Mar 11, 2013 05:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ref3808 (Post 884248)
There is no justification for wearing a collegiate jacket at a HS game. Not in the playoffs, not in the regular season, not in a scrimmage. None. Zero.

I don't know that I agree with this, but I do know how it comes across.

Camron Rust Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ref3808 (Post 884248)
There is no justification for wearing a collegiate jacket at a HS game. Not in the playoffs, not in the regular season, not in a scrimmage. None. Zero.

It is just a jacket. If the HS association elects to use it, what is wrong with it...particularly since it can be obtained without the CCA logo.

deecee Tue Mar 12, 2013 01:16am

Is the issue at hand here the jacket or the patch on the jacket (because all the jackets seem the same to me with the only difference being the patch).

Like I said earlier it's only big timing IMO if he acts like it.

Rich Tue Mar 12, 2013 01:18am

Another thing that's local. Around here I wouldn't even think of wearing my CCA jacket. It's an indicator of someone trying to big-time. So is wearing wide panels for a HS game.

(Not to mention both are specifically forbidden in HS games by the state office.)

JRutledge Tue Mar 12, 2013 04:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 884141)
Let's all be honest here. The ONLY reason to wear it is big timing. And you're correct Rocky...any supervisor would probably have a fit if they found one of their assignees wearing one to a HS game.

No, sometimes people would wear those jackets out of pure ignorance. At least that was the case back in the day before they changed the style. You would see a lot of purely lower level officials wearing them.

Peace

grunewar Tue Mar 12, 2013 05:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 884339)
So is wearing wide panels for a HS game.

Agreed.

Our Association told our guys to "knock it off."

And, as has been mentioned, if someone brings the "wrong jacket," we would treat it just as if someone forgot it. None of us would take the court with jackets.

ronny mulkey Tue Mar 12, 2013 05:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 884339)
Another thing that's local. Around here I wouldn't even think of wearing my CCA jacket. It's an indicator of someone trying to big-time. So is wearing wide panels for a HS game.

(Not to mention both are specifically forbidden in HS games by the state office.)

Rich,

Down here, wide panels are allowed IF everyone matches. CCA jackets are allowed to be worn IF everybody has one. If you purchase a jacket, you need to purchase a CCA jacket. So, big timing doesn't become what you are wearing. However, big timing is expressed through the use of TV style mechanics. They are condoned and encouraged.

TriggerMN Tue Mar 12, 2013 06:37am

I've been told at camps that the point is a signal to the shot clock operator that possession has changed and the shot clock should be reset.

bob jenkins Tue Mar 12, 2013 07:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriggerMN (Post 884351)
I've been told at camps that the point is a signal to the shot clock operator that possession has changed and the shot clock should be reset.

To the extent that's true, it should be used then only when there's a question about it, not on an obvious reset.

For example, A has posession, loose ball, B bats it / grabs it and throws it, a recovers.

And, there is a signal for that already, and that's not the one they use.

j51969 Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:56pm

How many people at a HS basketball game are going to be able to pick out these kinds of details on a jacket? Outside the officiating crew maybe 1 other guy. Who cares what kind of jacket he or she wears for 15min? Hell I don't even care about a screwy mechanic as long as we are on the same page, and it is conveying information that is valuable. What I do care about is someone who is fit, knowledgeable, and professional. I am 100% Soldier and a NCO in the United States Army. I am all for maintaining and upholding standards (it's what I do). How about the first guy with a smitty, the first pair of beltless pants, the first pair of patent leather shoes, or the pleated pant. I bet all of these guys were big leaguers at one time too. Every mentor you see preaches looking like the guy in the back of the book...a robot. Great advice really, and then you see them work. Awesome officials, but all seem to have something they do that isn't quite mechanically sound. Have some perspective....I can't believe so much venom is being spewed over something so minor. Your hang up with the CCA jacket pointing guy has to go deeper than the acts themselves.

JRutledge Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by j51969 (Post 884709)
How many people at a HS basketball game are going to be able to pick out these kinds of details on a jacket? Outside the officiating crew maybe 1 other guy. Who cares what kind of jacket he or she wears for 15min?

Well if it is a jacket the organization that authorizes its use does not want it to be worn, then more than 1 official might just notice. I know I would notice as I work college and I never wear that jacket in a HS game and never would. And all it takes is for the right person to see it like and evaluator, a state representative or the assignor and that is all they need. And with games being online, media or some camera phone, that is all it takes. So yes it can matter.


Quote:

Originally Posted by j51969 (Post 884709)
Hell I don't even care about a screwy mechanic as long as we are on the same page, and it is conveying information that is valuable. What I do care about is someone who is fit, knowledgeable, and professional. I am 100% Soldier and a NCO in the United States Army. I am all for maintaining and upholding standards (it's what I do). How about the first guy with a smitty, the first pair of beltless pants, the first pair of patent leather shoes, or the pleated pant. I bet all of these guys were big leaguers at one time too. Every mentor you see preaches looking like the guy in the back of the book...a robot. Great advice really, and then you see them work. Awesome officials, but all seem to have something they do that isn't quite mechanically sound. Have some perspective....I can't believe so much venom is being spewed over something so minor. Your hang up with the CCA jacket pointing guy has to go deeper than the acts themselves.

Actually this is a bad comparison on many levels. Shirt with a smitty or pleated pants were not something unique to college or other levels. Heck there were already belt-less pants and pleated were more comfortable and no one cared or noticed if you wore them when they first became popular. Just like no one cared if you wore a V-neck shirt when those came in style. Apples and Star fruit if you ask me.

Peace

Rich Thu Mar 14, 2013 07:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by j51969 (Post 884709)
How many people at a HS basketball game are going to be able to pick out these kinds of details on a jacket?

Anyone who matters will be able to pick it out and once they do (in many areas) it's too late.

Depending on the area, the same can be said for people who wear belted pants or side panel shirts.

OKREF Thu Mar 14, 2013 07:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 884339)
Another thing that's local. Around here I wouldn't even think of wearing my CCA jacket. It's an indicator of someone trying to big-time. So is wearing wide panels for a HS game.

(Not to mention both are specifically forbidden in HS games by the state office.)

You guys really can't wear the side panel shirts? For the last 2 years that is all we have worn, I don't think I have seen a guy without one in the last 2 years.

Raymond Thu Mar 14, 2013 08:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 884732)
You guys really can't wear the side panel shirts? For the last 2 years that is all we have worn, I don't think I have seen a guy without one in the last 2 years.

In my local association wide-panel shirts were a no-no under our old commissioner. My out-of-town association allows it as long as the whole crew matches.

jritchie Thu Mar 14, 2013 09:41am

Our new jackets for next year are the CCA jackets with the KHSAA Embroidered patch here in Kentucky. And our new shirts are the wide seam, with the embroidered KHSAA LOGO on the shirts as well. They were mandatory for state tourney this year and Mandatory for playoffs next year and mandatory for all games the year after. Someone is getting some big bucks for all this embroidered stuff. OUr Commish hates the grey so we will never go to it, but it sure does look a lot better than the stripes.

fullor30 Thu Mar 14, 2013 09:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 884098)
I get the appearance of perception and what it means to many. I have a hard time getting my hands around a concept that is not real is what it boils down to (plus perception is very arbitrary and subjective). It's just me personally but I always let the person's actions speak for themselves and I can see how some would take offense I personally don't.
And on a side note I would automatically assume a college official is (and should) be a better official that a HS one (practically speaking not always true but this should be the case). Much like how an NBA player would be better than a college player.

You contradict yourself, your assumption that guy in jacket is better ref is exactly what many have a problem with, subtlety conveying that you're a better official than your partners. There is a reason they call it a uniform.

On another note, there is 'that guy' around here who does a handful of D3 women's games before massive crowds in the 50's at obscure schools in the boonies. We have bets on the over/under every time he mentions "in my college games" in pregame, it usually is around 10. He also gives the perception he's 'filling in the gaps' in his schedule around his college games.

big jake Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:11am

They might not have enough money to buy 2 seperate jackets? If they are still doing HS games they must not get many college games and not have the extra money??? Jackets are expensive!

Raymond Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by big jake (Post 884742)
They might not have enough money to buy 2 seperate jackets? If they are still doing HS games they must not get many college games and not have the extra money??? Jackets are expensive!

If you're doing college games you have money for a jacket.

Welpe Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by big jake (Post 884742)
They might not have enough money to buy 2 seperate jackets? If they are still doing HS games they must not get many college games and not have the extra money??? Jackets are expensive!

Oh baloney. Go ask Curtis, he'll tell you why that's wrong.

rockyroad Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jritchie (Post 884737)
Our new jackets for next year are the CCA jackets with the KHSAA Embroidered patch here in Kentucky. And our new shirts are the wide seam, with the embroidered KHSAA LOGO on the shirts as well. They were mandatory for state tourney this year and Mandatory for playoffs next year and mandatory for all games the year after. Someone is getting some big bucks for all this embroidered stuff. OUr Commish hates the grey so we will never go to it, but it sure does look a lot better than the stripes.

If the KHSAA logo is covering the CCA logo, then it is not really a CCA jacket anymore...

Rich Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by big jake (Post 884742)
They might not have enough money to buy 2 seperate jackets? If they are still doing HS games they must not get many college games and not have the extra money??? Jackets are expensive!

I've never worked one HS varsity game where the cost of a jacket is more than the game fee.

Some officials are the cheapest people I know. It costs money to be an official.

APG Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by big jake (Post 884742)
They might not have enough money to buy 2 seperate jackets? If they are still doing HS games they must not get many college games and not have the extra money??? Jackets are expensive!

This...doesn't even make sense

bob jenkins Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 884752)
If the KHSAA logo is covering the CCA logo, then it is not really a CCA jacket anymore...

Exactly. The OP isn't really about the jacket itself, it's about wearing something that most others don't wear and that is at a "higher level" than others wear.

fullor30 Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 884753)
I've never worked one HS varsity game where the cost of a jacket is more than the game fee.

Some officials are the cheapest people I know. It costs money to be an official.

Bingo, incredible, some guys have same pants from 10 years ago or shoes going on 5, 6 years And a few of them still do varsity.

BillyMac Thu Mar 14, 2013 05:02pm

Apologies To Moses ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 884727)
... the same can be said for people who wear belted pants.

I’ll give up my black belt when you take it from my cold, dead, waist.

oakgrove1 Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:23am

This may be off topic but why do they hv the "visible count" in basketball??

Raymond Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by oakgrove1 (Post 885056)
This may be off topic but why do they hv the "visible count" in basketball??

What makes you think they don't?

oakgrove1 Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 884119)
Or because (insert big name here) does it and I want people to think I am just as good as (insert big name) and now it's a habit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 885057)
What makes you think they don't?

I'm just asking what's the purpose of it??? I'm new here haha

Rich Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 884830)
I’ll give up my black belt when you take it from my cold, dead, waist.

I still think the saddest thing is that you continue to reference it as a point of (misplaced, IMO) pride.

rockyroad Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by oakgrove1 (Post 885056)
This may be off topic but why do they hv the "visible count" in basketball??

The visible count is so that coaches and players can tell we actually have a count going when w should, and so that they can know if they need to do something - such as call a timeout, start a dribble or end a dribble, among a number of other things.

BillyMac Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:31pm

Not A Fashionista ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 885059)
I still think the saddest thing is that you continue to reference it as a point of (misplaced, IMO) pride.

It's not a point of pride for me personally, it's about comfort, familiarity, and belonging to a local board that is flexible in some uniform issues. Maybe it is a point of pride that I belong to a local board that allows some flexibility in it's dress guidelines, my local board realizing that, although a proper uniform is an important part of officiating, it's not necessarily just the clothes that make the official.

Over thirty two years I've seen officials move up the ladder with, and without belts, so I figured, why change. Many of our top officials, the ones that work the state championship games, still wear belted pants, especially the more "mature" officials. Our flexible dress guidelines allow me this choice.

Officials on my local board are allowed to wear either pleated pants, or flat pants. I have both, I don't have a preference, and the next pair that I purchase will be either pleated, or flat, whatever is easily available, most comfortable, and less expensive. Our flexible dress guidelines allow me this choice.

Several years ago, many officials on my local board started to use the Smitty lanyard, so I gave it a shot for a few games, but kept pulling on it, a bad habit from many, many, years of using a noose lanyard, and broke a few jersey loops, so I decided to go back, for good, to the noose lanyard, and not the one that hitches up to your neck, the old fashioned one that is "loose" all the way down to the whistle. Our flexible dress guidelines allow me this choice.

Many years ago, we were forced to switch from the pea whistle, I think that it was a Acme Thunderer, to the Fox 40. I didn't like the larger size of the Fox 40 so I switched to the Mini Fox, that was similar in size to the Acme Thunderer. After several games, I had a few partners, and observers, tell me that my whistle wasn't loud enough, so I went the Fox 40, and eventually got used to it, so you can teach an old dog new tricks.

I'm not a very flashy dresser, so I've tried to stay away from patent leather shoes. I'm getting to an age when I have to really start trying to take care of my feet, and everyone on my local board, as well as many on the Forum, have been raving about the Reebok Zigs, "they're light", "they're comfortable", etc. I finally relented and bought a pair of patent leather Zigs. I've only worn them once and the comfort more than balances out the flashy appearance of the patent leather, so it looks like I can live, and work, with shiny shoes.

I firmly believe that an official should be appropriately dressed, but there's more to a good official than unbelted, pleated pants, Smitty lanyards, Fox 40 whistles, and shiny shoes. I also realize that flexibility in an official's uniform is not possible in many local associations, but it is in mine, and I'm lucky that I can take advantage of the flexibility in our local dress code (comfort, familiarity, availability, cost), where many of you are not so fortunate. If I were on a local board with less flexible dress guidelines, then I, like many of you, would be wearing unbelted, pleated pants, Smitty lanyards, with Fox 40 whistles, and shiny shoes.

Once again, as we've heard so many times on the Forum, "When in Rome ...".

And finally, there is another reason why I keep referencing my black belted pants, because some Forum members keep making fun of those officials, like me, both Forum members, and non Forum members that they've observed, that wear belted pants, so I always respond: I wear them because I like them, and I can, and if you think that it makes me a lesser official, then you're dead wrong.

JRutledge Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 885059)
I still think the saddest thing is that you continue to reference it as a point of (misplaced, IMO) pride.

And this surprises you? :D

Peace

JRutledge Sun Mar 17, 2013 01:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 885061)
It's not a point of pride for me personally, it's about comfort, familiarity, and belonging to a local board that is flexible in some uniform issues. Maybe it is a point of pride that I belong to a local board that allows some flexibility in it's dress guidelines, my local board realizing that, although a proper uniform is an important part of officiating, it's not necessarily just "the clothes that make the (official)".

Over thirty two years I've seen officials move up the ladder with, and without belts, so I figured, why change. Many of our top officials, the ones that work the state championship games, still wear belted slacks, especially the more "mature" officials.

Well that might be correct and what you observe, but I do not recall most of of here ever suggesting that someone automatically would not move up because of them wearing a belt. But wearing a belt or any number of uniform items will make you stand out. It might not be in a positive way, but you will stand out. No one one the court is wearing a belt, so why would the officials wear one? It looks silly for that sport and when no one from the top to the bottom as a rule wears one, then why wear one. That is what a tailor is for to make them fit you perfectly if needed. People in my areas stopped wearing belts because of how bad they looked when you were the only one wearing them. I do not think it had anything directly to do with moving up or not moving up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 885061)
Several years ago, many officials on my local board started to use the Smitty lanyard, so I gave it a shot for a few games, but kept pulling on it, a bad habit from many, many, years of using a noose lanyard, and broke a few jersey loops, so I decided to go back, for good, to the noose lanyard, and not the one that hitches up to your neck, the old fashioned one that is "loose" all the way down to the whistle.

False equivalence, I have never heard or seen anyone care what kind of lanyard someone wears. I haven't warn a Smitty lanyard in years and cannot think that anyone even noticed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 885061)
Many years ago, we were forced to switch from the pea whistle, I think that it was a Acme Thunderer, to the Fox 40. I didn't like the larger size of the Fox 40 so I switched to the Mini Fox. After several games, I had a few partners, and observers, tell me that my whistle wasn't loud enough, so I went the Fox 40, and eventually got used to it, so you can teach an old dog new tricks.

Another false argument when the only issue with a whistle was sound. I worked with a guy that used a Fox Mini and I never heard him when the crowd got very loud. Who cares about style of your whistle if it makes enough noise to be heard when you need to be heard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 885061)
I'm not a flashy dresser, so I've tried to stay away from patent leather shoes. I'm getting to an age when I have to really start trying to take care of my feet, and everyone on my local board, as well as many on the Forum, have been raving about the Reebok Zigs, "they're light", "they're comfortable", etc. I finally relented and bought a pair of patent leather Zigs. I've only worn them once and the comfort more than balances out the flashy appearance of the patent leather, so it looks like I can live with shiny shoes.

People did not buy the shoes to be flashy. People bought the shoes because they were comfortable, period. That is why in several situations this year me and my partners were all in the Zigs because we all independently liked the shoe. No other reason. Honestly if I could have found a pair without the patented leather design I would have. And the shoes before that I had patented leather were comfortable too. I have never bought a shoe and only liked them because of how they look. They have to be comfortable first. I bought some Reebox years ago that were patented leather and I wore them twice. They are still sitting in my closet and I would never wear them again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 885061)
There's another reason that I occasionally post about my conservative dress. I firmly believe that an official should be appropriately dressed, but there's more to a good official than unbelted slacks, Smitty lanyards, Fox 40 whistles, and shiny shoes. I also realize that flexibility in an official's uniform is not possible in many local associations, but it is in mine, and I'm lucky that I can take advantage of the flexibility in our local dress code, where many of you are not so fortunate. If I were on a local board with less flexible dress guidelines, then I, like many of you, would be wearing unbelted slacks, Smitty lanyards, and shiny shoes.

Once again, as we've heard so many times on the Forum, "When in Rome ...".

Again, I do not believe that anyone has said "you must wear this or else." Most of these discussions or items you have brought up have been about personal preferences, even with pants styles. I think the western flat front pants look bad, but that does not stop anyone from wearing them or working big games because of them. Actually all these things you talk about are minor if you can officiate, but most people have no problem changing. You are not the only one that started wearing one kind of uniform and as time changed we changed or move to something else. We all know that some things might be local and certain areas might have some preferences, but I have never heard anyone say you will not work a single game because you have (fill in the blank) item. My associations have absolutely no say over what we wear because they do not hire us to do anything and hire people outside of association affiliations in the vast majority of cases for HS games, but you will be judged as an individual and if you look a certain way for all kinds of reasons, that is what is going to hold you back, not one item in your uniform.

Peace

BillyMac Sun Mar 17, 2013 01:38pm

When In Rome, Look For The White Smoke ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 885067)
People in my areas stopped wearing belts because of how bad they looked when you were the only one wearing them.

Here in my little corner of Connecticut, we wear both, no one stands out on either side of the issue, unlike some posters on the Forum, who believe wearing a belt seems to be, in some manner, associated with inferior officiating, which I'm sure it is in some associations, where the dress code is stricter. It just isn't an issue here. Really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 885067)
I have never heard or seen anyone care what kind of lanyard someone wears. I haven't warn a Smitty lanyard in years and cannot think that anyone even noticed.

Agree, just giving an example of another choice that we are given.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 885067)
Who cares about style of your whistle if it makes enough noise to be heard when you need to be heard.

We have to use a pealess whistle, period, no exceptions. The brand, or style, of pealess whistle is up to us, but it has to be a pealess. And I did switch from one Fox style, to another, to be heard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 885067)
People did not buy the shoes to be flashy. People bought the shoes because they were comfortable, period.

I never said that they did. I did say that I thought that the patent leather would be too flashy for me because I normally dress very conservatively. I wore Zig patent leathers last week for the first time and felt like Fred Astaire (ask your parents, or grandparents) out there. I'm sure that I'll get used to it after a few games next season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 885067)
I do not believe that anyone has said "you must wear this or else."

My own local board says so: Black dress pants, not sweat pants, or any other style, no exceptions. Pealess whistle, no others allowed, no exceptions. 100% black shoes, no exceptions. Local board jacket, no others allowed, no exceptions, other than both officials not wearing a jacket. Black socks, no exceptions. For those that wear an undershirt that shows above the jersey neckline, it must be black, no exceptions. For those that wear a belt, a black belt, no large buckles, no exceptions. No jewelery, with an exception for wedding bands. With an exception for rookie "cadets", we must wear a jersey with an IAABO patch, either a jersey with an embroidered patch, or a jersey with a patch that we've had sewed on, no other exceptions.

There's a lot more to a good official than unbelted, pleated pants, Smitty lanyards, Fox 40 whistles, and shiny shoes. I believe that JRutledge, and I, are on the same page on that point. And, as usual, there may be exceptions when one checks their local listings.

Here in my little corner of Connecticut, there are good officials that wear unbelted, pleated, pants, Smitty lanyards, with Fox 40 whistles, and shiny shoes, and there are bad officials that wear unbelted, pleated, pants, Smitty lanyards, with Fox 40 whistles, and shiny shoes, in addition to good officials that wear belted, flat, pants, noose lanyards, with Fox 40 whistles, and flat black shoes, and bad officials that wear belted, flat, pants, noose lanyards, with Fox 40 whistles, and flat black shoes.

Bottom line, I'm just sick and tired of a few Forum members, based on their own local customs, equating black belts with inferior officiating. I observed some of my local colleagues work state championship final games this weekend, with belted pants, that would probably officiate circles, with their hands tied behind their backs, around a few Forum members, including me.

Of course, we mostly work two person games here in the Land That Time Forgot, but we no longer wear Byron collars.

OKREF Sun Mar 17, 2013 01:40pm

Our association has said in JH and below, we can wear any kind of shirt as long as they match.

Raymond Sun Mar 17, 2013 01:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by oakgrove1 (Post 885058)
I'm just asking what's the purpose of it??? I'm new here haha

Misread your question. Visible count is to provide information to coaches and players.

bob jenkins Sun Mar 17, 2013 04:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by oakgrove1 (Post 885056)
This may be off topic but why do they hv the "visible count" in basketball??

To show that someone is closely guarded. After 5 seconds, it will be a violation.

HS and NCAAM: Within 6; holding or dribbling (must be 5 consectutive seconds of one of these -- the count starts over if a player goes from one to the other); front court only.

NCAAW: Within 3', holding only; anywhere on the court.

BillyMac Sun Mar 17, 2013 05:23pm

Who You Gonna Call ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oakgrove1 (Post 885056)
This may be off topic but why do they have the "visible count" in basketball?

The inbounding player does not have a plane restriction, but has five seconds to release the ball and it must come directly onto the court.

A ten-second count continues when the defense deflects or bats the ball in the backcourt. When a dribbler is advancing the ball into the frontcourt, the ball maintains backcourt status until both feet and the ball touch entirely in the frontcourt.

The closely guarded rule is in effect in frontcourt only, when a defender is within six feet of the ball handler. Up to three separate five-second counts may occur on the same ball handler, holding, dribbling, and holding. The count continues even if defenders switch. The five-second count ends when a dribbler gets his or her head and shoulders ahead of the defender.

A free throw shooter has ten seconds to shoot.

A visible count is not necessary on a three second violation.

JRutledge Sun Mar 17, 2013 05:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 885070)
Here in my little corner of Connecticut, there are good officials that wear unbelted, pleated, pants, Smitty lanyards, with Fox 40 whistles, and shiny shoes, and there are bad officials that wear unbelted, pleated, pants, Smitty lanyards, with Fox 40 whistles, and shiny shoes, in addition to good officials that wear belted, flat, pants, noose lanyards, with Fox 40 whistles, and flat black shoes, and bad officials that wear belted, flat, pants, noose lanyards, with Fox 40 whistles, and flat black shoes.

I do not think anyone has ever told us in my state that you should have a pealess whistle. That is just something does not need to be said as people do not go buy their stuff and the Sports Authority or Dick's Sports to get their uniform. Maybe Honigs, Gerry Davis Sports or others have those whistles, but that is about the first thing we tell officials and if they do not figure it out after their first game they will be told so in a camp or by a partner. There is after all peer pressure to many things we are discussing and people will "make fun of you" if you do not in the funniest of ways. In other words no association would allow their officials to go out there looking like they are clueless. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 885070)
Bottom line, I'm just sick and tired of a few Forum members, based on their own local customs, equating black belts with inferior officiating. I observed some of my local colleagues work state championship final games this weekend, with belted pants, that would probably officiate circles, with their hands tied behind their backs, around a few Forum members, including me.

Of course, we mostly work two person games here in the Land That Time Forgot, but we no longer wear Byron collars.

Well maybe that says more about the overall respect that your state has in the world of basketball. Also working the State Finals (in any state) has little to do with who is the best of the best based on what I have read or witnessed personally in my state. At the HS level, there are all kinds of non-ability factors that will go into any assignments. If they only picked the best all the time then some officials would never get there at all.

But if someone was wearing a Byron collar, then I guess that would be OK with you as well?

And the fact that you guys still only work 2 man says a lot as well. ;)

Peace

BillyMac Sun Mar 17, 2013 07:02pm

Tea For Two ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 885088)
And the fact that you guys still only work 2 man says a lot as well.

Blame the coaches, not the athletic directors, or the principals.

JRutledge Sun Mar 17, 2013 08:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 885094)
Blame the coaches, not the athletic directors, or the principals.

I thought the these people rate you guys as well right?

Peace

BillyMac Mon Mar 18, 2013 06:46am

The Land That Time Forgot ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 885109)
I thought the these people rate you guys as well right?

No. 80% of our local rating comes from peer ratings, the other 20% includes things like refresher exams, meeting attendance, and availability, all controlled locally, by officials. Coaches are not involved at all with local ratings, local rankings, and thus, our local assignments.

The coaches do have total control over state tournament officials. State tournament assignments are based on coach's votes, period. The more votes you get, the deeper you advance into the state tournament.

Many school athletic directors, and school principals, would be for three person games, especially if there were some type of adjustment in the payment from a two person game to a three person game.

The coaches here in Connecticut have a very strong coaching organization, run by a small group of the most successful coaches. Most of these successful coaches play a very aggressive, very fast paced, defensive style of basketball and most believe, whether it's true, or not, that a change to three person games would have a negative impact on their success. The state interscholastic governing body takes the advice of the coaching organization very seriously, and thus we have very few three person games here in the Constitution State.

jeschmit Mon Mar 18, 2013 07:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 885067)
...Another false argument when the only issue with a whistle was sound. I worked with a guy that used a Fox Mini and I never heard him when the crowd got very loud. Who cares about style of your whistle if it makes enough noise to be heard when you need to be heard...

I'll throw my two cents in on the whistle-sounding talk. I think it does matter as to what kind of pealess whistle you use. The difference between a Fox Mini and a Fox 40 Classic might not be that noticeable, but the difference in sound between a Classic and a Dolfin or Sonic are pretty noticeable, imo. If you have two different sounding whistles on the floor, coaches can tell who's whistle is sounding in the case of double whistles... It could get you into trouble in the case of a travel/foul double whistle (it's happened to me on a game before).

Rich Mon Mar 18, 2013 08:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeschmit (Post 885136)
I'll throw my two cents in on the whistle-sounding talk. I think it does matter as to what kind of pealess whistle you use. The difference between a Fox Mini and a Fox 40 Classic might not be that noticeable, but the difference in sound between a Classic and a Dolfin or Sonic are pretty noticeable, imo. If you have two different sounding whistles on the floor, coaches can tell who's whistle is sounding in the case of double whistles... It could get you into trouble in the case of a travel/foul double whistle (it's happened to me on a game before).

I've moved to the Eclipse. Most comfortable whistle ever. It also is rated the same as the Fox 40 Classic.

Rich Mon Mar 18, 2013 08:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 885061)
It's not a point of pride for me personally, it's about comfort, familiarity, and belonging to a local board that is flexible in some uniform issues. Maybe it is a point of pride that I belong to a local board that allows some flexibility in it's dress guidelines, my local board realizing that, although a proper uniform is an important part of officiating, it's not necessarily just the clothes that make the official.

....

And finally, there is another reason why I keep referencing my black belted pants, because some Forum members keep making fun of those officials, like me, both Forum members, and non Forum members that they've observed, that wear belted pants, so I always respond: I wear them because I like them, and I can, and if you think that it makes me a lesser official, then you're dead wrong.

I've never, ever seen a guy wear a belt in a serious game in any place I've lived since the early 1990s who was a top flight official. There are a few guys here locally who are politically connected that wear belts, but an independent evaluation of their work on the court would show a difference between what those guys get in the postseason compared with their actual ability. One of those guys stubbornly wears the belted pants and then matches it with an Acme Thunderer rubber-tipped metal pea whistle and always lets everyone know he's "using the pea whistle." No clue what HE'S trying to prove, but he's the kind of guy I hope I'm never paired with.

When someone has the choice of wearing something that 100% of the officials who work at the top levels wear (on TV and elsewhere) and it's actually the standard wear for the sport, I just don't understand why you'd make a different choice.

I started working HS ball in 1987. No idea what I was wearing back then with my Byron collar. I know I've been wearing beltless pants since at least the early 90s, though, and maybe earlier. The only change has been the addition of pleats between then and now. I feel the same way about flat front pants today as I feel about belts -- why would an official buy flat fronts when all the top officials wear pleats and they've become the standard.

BillyMac Mon Mar 18, 2013 05:04pm

You Can't Get There From Here ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 885140)
I've never, ever seen a guy wear a belt in a serious game in any place I've lived since the early 1990s who was a top flight official. When someone has the choice of wearing something that 100% of the officials who work at the top levels wear (on TV and elsewhere) and it's actually the standard wear for the sport, I just don't understand why you'd make a different choice.

Then you have never lived in my little corner of Connecticut. The standard here, and I've served on the training committee for several years so I know that I'm talking about, is that officials have a choice of wearing belted, or beltless pants, and for that matter, pleated, or flat, pants. Of our 325 members, we only have about a dozen NCAA officials, and of those only a handful of Division I officials, and the college guys, universally, wear beltless pleated pants, however, not all of those guys are considered by either their peers, or by the high school coaches, to be our best officials. Of our dozen, or so, officials, who work the "top level" high school games around here, only a few are college officials, and with exception of those college guys, the rest wear both types of pants, in terms of belts, or pleats.

But things are changing. Back when I started 32 years ago, only the college guys wore the beltless pants, and, back then, nobody wore pleated pants. Now most of the "young guns" coming up choose to wear beltless pants, although the pleats haven't followed suit, for some reason.

We're a board that services high schools, and we're, for the most part, high school officials. Most of us really don't care what the NCAA guys wear on television. We watch how they officiate. We watch how they manage a game. We watch their mechanics. But we don't really care what they wear.

That's our local standard. I'm 100% sure that standards vary all over the country, state to state, association to association, NFHS versus IAABO, etc. I don't make fun of other's standards, and I see no reason why others should make fun of ours. We're old fashioned, but we're comfortable in our own skin.

For some reason, Connecticut was one of the last IAABO states to even consider a switch from the gray, and blue, to black, and white, jerseys. My local board was one of the last local boards in the state, IAABO, or otherwise, to make jackets mandatory. Almost all of our games are two person games. There is a reason why Connecticut is called the Land of Steady Habits. I may be a Red Sox fan, but I'm a Connecticut Yankee through and through.

In the immortal words of St. Ambrose, who in 387 A.D., after Saint Augustine questioned why the Church at Milan did not fast on Saturday as did the Church at Rome: "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

Rich Mon Mar 18, 2013 05:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 885248)
Then you have never lived in my little corner of Connecticut. The standard here, and I've served on the training committee for several years so I know that I'm talking about, is that officials have a choice of wearing belted, or beltless pants, and for that matter, pleated, or flat, pants. Of our 325 members, we only have about a dozen NCAA officials, and of those only a handful of Division I officials, and those guys, universally, wear beltless pleated pants, however, not all of those guys are considered by either their peers, or by the high school coaches, to be our best officials.

This says more about their peers and the coaches than it does about them, IMO.

BillyMac Mon Mar 18, 2013 05:34pm

The Old College Try ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 885249)
This says more about their peers and the coaches than it does about them.

For some reason, it's real easy around here to get a Division II, or Division III, women's schedule, and only slightly more difficult to get a men's Division III college schedule. I really have no idea why, I know nothing about the politics of college officiating, assigning etc.

We have college officials on our local high school board who aren't even full varsity high school officials. Some of them have what we call a split schedule, working both varsity, and junior varsity, high school games. That's how good some of them are. Maybe, in your part of the woods, all of the college guys are the top dogs in the high school ranks, but that certainly isn't true around here.

JRutledge Mon Mar 18, 2013 05:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 885251)
For some reason, it's real easy around here to get a Division II, or Division III, women's schedule, and only slightly more difficult to get a men's Division III college schedule. I really have no idea why, I know nothing about the politics of college officiating, assigning etc.

We have college officials on our local high school board who aren't even full varsity high school officials. Some of them have what we call a split schedule, working both varsity, and junior varsity, high school games. A few of them only get junior varsity high school games. That's how good they are. Maybe, in your part of the woods, all of the college guys are the top dogs in the high school ranks, but that certainly isn't true around here.

For the record it is rather easy in a lot of places to work women's college for some very obvious reasons. It is easier in other areas to work men's college when an area requires more travel or you need a people with the ability to handle those kinds of games. Not everyone is willing to travel what it takes to work a college game. From what I have heard form those in this part of the country that there are much more politics to work HS games then they ever have to deal with working college. In my area we have so many colleges that it is harder than most areas to even break in and more officials.

Peace

BillyMac Mon Mar 18, 2013 05:59pm

On The Road Again ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 885253)
For the record it is rather easy in a lot of places to work women's college for some very obvious reasons. It is easier in other areas to work men's college when an area requires more travel or you need a people with the ability to handle those kinds of games. Not everyone is willing to travel what it takes to work a college game.

It's probably a lot different now, but twenty years ago I was approached, and encouraged, to work low level college games. I declined because the travel involved working games anywhere from northern Maine, to western Pennsylvania, all the way down to the Washington, D.C. area. If the Atlantic Ocean wasn't in the way, they would have wanted me to travel east as well. I had little kids at home and I didn't want to spend my entire weekends on the road, especially with our northeastern winter weather.

BillyMac Tue Mar 19, 2013 06:36am

I'm Late, I'm Late, For A Very Important Date ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 885254)
It's probably a lot different now, but twenty years ago I was approached, and encouraged, to work low level college games. I declined because ...

Back then, it was very difficult for new college officials to get any assignments. Most had to "pay their dues" by accepting last minute fill-ins (illness, injury, etc.) for a few years, and if you turned back the fill-in, you were not likely to get another call very soon.

One new college official, on my local high school board, received a phone call early one Saturday morning and was told to be in Orono, Maine, for an early afternoon game. For me, that was the straw that broke the camel's back that led me to decline any invitation to work low level college games.

Rich Tue Mar 19, 2013 08:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 885251)
For some reason, it's real easy around here to get a Division II, or Division III, women's schedule, and only slightly more difficult to get a men's Division III college schedule. I really have no idea why, I know nothing about the politics of college officiating, assigning etc.

We have college officials on our local high school board who aren't even full varsity high school officials. Some of them have what we call a split schedule, working both varsity, and junior varsity, high school games. That's how good some of them are. Maybe, in your part of the woods, all of the college guys are the top dogs in the high school ranks, but that certainly isn't true around here.

It speaks more, IMO, about the politics involved for an official to break into the varsity HS ranks in your area.

BillyMac Tue Mar 19, 2013 08:15pm

Young Guns ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 885306)
It speaks more, IMO, about the politics involved for an official to break into the varsity HS ranks in your area.

It's very competitive, a lot of politics, but there have been some good signs lately. Our five year old mentoring program is starting to take hold. Over the past two seasons the coaches have voted a few young officials (less than ten years experience) into the state tournament. A few of the old veterans are grumbling about it, but the coaches go for quality over experience, and you probably can't fault them for that. It's nice to see deserving young officials move up the ladder without kissing political a*s, but rather, just based on the quality of their work.

Also, some of our (low level) college guys aren't really that good, they think that they are, using their college mechanics in a high school game, but they aren't. Many spend most of the pregame talking about their college assignments, and complaining about having to fill in their schedule with high school games. Some "forget" their high school jackets, or their high school jacket is "in the wash" and wear their college jacket in a high school game. Some don't take their responsibility of observing the junior varsity officials and show up a few minutes before their varsity game, or if they're a "split" officials (varsity and subvarsity) they don't stick around after their junior varsity game to observe the varsity officials. I guess that they figure that they don't need to follow the association rules because they're only in the high school association for the short haul. I'm sure that every high school association has a few of these guys as members.


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