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-   -   Headbands, the picture version (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/94279-headbands-picture-version.html)

JetMetFan Wed Mar 06, 2013 09:14pm

Headbands, the picture version
 
Again, apologies to Iowa. You were the lucky ones to have your state playoffs on ESPN360 first.

I know we had another string about headbands but I wanted to post some visuals. I hate to say it but while I was watching this game I kept thinking, "why wasn't this dealt with during the 15 minutes before tipoff?"

None of us wants to be the fashion police but the rainbow coalition of headbands, combined with the one girl who played with what appears to be metal clips in her hair, gives a bad impression at the start of the game IMO. I know if I was an observer it would stick out in my mind.


http://i45.tinypic.com/2qjx9g3.jpg http://i48.tinypic.com/eis4l4.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/308uzvs.jpg http://i45.tinypic.com/2qib4pi.jpg

4-40 Wed Mar 06, 2013 09:38pm

Only in Iowa....
 
The Girls Union in Iowa doesn't enforce the color restrictions on headbands. I have no idea why. Black, white, beige, or school color is obviously too difficult to adjudicate correctly. The players can also wear metal clips in their hair, as long as the clips do not exceed two inches in length. I agree, it looks like a circus out there, but the officials are following the directives from the governing body.:(

JetMetFan Wed Mar 06, 2013 09:50pm

Well, my apologies again to the officials on this and other games in regards to that rule but not enforcing it doesn't make sense, especially with the hair clips.

APG Wed Mar 06, 2013 09:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-40 (Post 883396)
The Girls Union in Iowa doesn't enforce the color restrictions on headbands. I have no idea why. Black, white, beige, or school color is obviously too difficult to adjudicate correctly. The players can also wear metal clips in their hair, as long as the clips do not exceed two inches in length. I agree, it looks like a circus out there, but the officials are following the directives from the governing body.:(

Good for them (as far as the color bit goes)!

Camron Rust Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-40 (Post 883396)
The Girls Union in Iowa doesn't enforce the color restrictions on headbands. I have no idea why. Black, white, beige, or school color is obviously too difficult to adjudicate correctly. The players can also wear metal clips in their hair, as long as the clips do not exceed two inches in length. I agree, it looks like a circus out there, but the officials are following the directives from the governing body.:(

That is because those are not headbands but hair restraints. The rules don't regulate hair control devices.

See this prior thread for the official word: http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...headbands.html

4-40 Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 883409)
That is because those are not headbands but hair restraints. The rules don't regulate hair control devices.

See this prior thread for the official word: http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...headbands.html

Here's the official wording:

Wristbands and Headwear - We will be adhering to Rules 3-5-4 and 3-6 regarding wristbands and headwear with the following exceptions. Anything worn in the hair (including headbands) must be soft and unadorned but may be any color or multi-colored and do not have to match for all teammates. Bobby pins 2” or less will also be allowed. Wristbands may be any color or multi-colored and do not have to match for all teammates, but must be moisture-absorbing material. Lance Armstrong bracelets, rubber bands, etc., are still illegal as they are not moisture-absorbing.

wyo96 Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:26pm

All headbands
 
Thanks for the pictures.

I would disagree, that by rule or interpretation those are all hair control items.

In picture two she has a pink HEADBAND and a Red HAIR CONTROL device.
In picture three she has a red HEADBAND and a black HAIR CONTROL device.

Enforce according to state rules for those items.

deecee Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:50pm

I think its amusing that there is a distinction here between headband and hair control device when the only difference is one needs to be tied and the other doesn't. For all other appearance reason they look the same.

I wish they would just lump all headgear into one category to keep things simple.

Rich Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 883409)
That is because those are not headbands but hair restraints. The rules don't regulate hair control devices.

See this prior thread for the official word: http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...headbands.html

Outdated thread. Changed in 2008-09 to include prewrap that goes around the entire head. The pictures in this thread -- those would be treated as headbands. Unless, of course, the state made its own rules.

-----


2008-09 NFHS Basketball Case 2008-09 Changes
PART 1 Comments on the
2008-09 Revisions
HEADBANDS DEFINED AND COLORS ADDED (3-5-3): Any item that goes
around the entire head (elastic strips/bands, pre-wrap, headbands, etc.) shall
meet the rule requirements regarding color, maximum size, logo restrictions and
team uniformity. The colors of black and beige were also added to the list of permissible
colors a team may wear. This change makes the rule more consistent in
application and enforcement. The additional colors will provide student-athletes
with the same low-cost options previously available, while maintaining team uniformity.

Camron Rust Thu Mar 07, 2013 03:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 883417)
Outdated thread. Changed in 2008-09 to include prewrap that goes around the entire head. The pictures in this thread -- those would be treated as headbands. Unless, of course, the state made its own rules.

-----


2008-09 NFHS Basketball Case 2008-09 Changes
PART 1 Comments on the
2008-09 Revisions
HEADBANDS DEFINED AND COLORS ADDED (3-5-3): Any item that goes
around the entire head
(elastic strips/bands, pre-wrap, headbands, etc.) shall
meet the rule requirements regarding color, maximum size, logo restrictions and
team uniformity. The colors of black and beige were also added to the list of permissible
colors a team may wear. This change makes the rule more consistent in
application and enforcement. The additional colors will provide student-athletes
with the same low-cost options previously available, while maintaining team uniformity.

Agree....we're told that if it is up around the hair only and not down on the forehead, then it isn't going around "the entire head". So, the above items are still not things that are covered by the rule according to our interpreter.

Rich Thu Mar 07, 2013 03:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 883425)
Agree....we're told that if it is up around the hair only and not down on the forehead, then it isn't going around "the entire head". So, the above items are still not things that are covered by the rule according to our interpreter.

A very liberal interpretation -- not that I care one way or another. I'm a fan of Iowa's way of thinking (well, with the hair-control devices / headbands, anyway).

BillyMac Thu Mar 07, 2013 07:45am

Fashionista ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 883417)
2008-09 NFHS Basketball Case 2008-09 Changes
PART 1 Comments on the 2008-09 Revisions
HEADBANDS DEFINED AND COLORS ADDED (3-5-3): Any item that goes
around the entire head (elastic strips/bands, pre-wrap, headbands, etc.) shall
meet the rule requirements regarding color, maximum size, logo restrictions and
team uniformity. The colors of black and beige were also added to the list of permissible
colors a team may wear. This change makes the rule more consistent in
application and enforcement. The additional colors will provide student-athletes
with the same low-cost options previously available, while maintaining team uniformity.

We've been told that anything that goes around the head is a headband, anything that goes around only hair is a hair control device. That doesn't stop many officials in my local area from ignoring the rule and leaving their Fashion Police badges in the car. I'm usually a guy who goes by the book, but I was so frustrated this year that I decided that any color, to me, was a school color, and allowed the girls to wear any color headband as long as they all wore the same color. I guess that I was kicking the can down the road to some other official, but I was comfortable with my little compromise.

bob jenkins Thu Mar 07, 2013 08:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyo96 (Post 883413)
Thanks for the pictures.

I would disagree, that by rule or interpretation those are all hair control items.

In picture two she has a pink HEADBAND and a Red HAIR CONTROL device.
In picture three she has a red HEADBAND and a black HAIR CONTROL device.

Enforce according to state rules for those items.

I agree with this intpretation.

If you draw a line from one point on the item to another and go through skull, it's a headband. If you only go through hair, it's a hair control device.

I don't recall any issues in my games this year -- the coaches and players know the rule and (generally) abide by it or are told to comply and do so without (obvious) complaining.

I'm not sure what the issue was with the picture in the lower left.

jdmara Thu Mar 07, 2013 09:44am

As an Iowa official, I will say that I like the Iowa High School Girl's Athletic Union's adaptation for headbands and hair control devices. It's one less uniform item that we have to deal with as officials. On the other hand, we still have to deal with this issue during the boy's games (as it's covered by a different state association).

-Josh

Terrapins Fan Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 883433)
I agree with this intpretation.

If you draw a line from one point on the item to another and go through skull, it's a headband. If you only go through hair, it's a hair control device.

I don't recall any issues in my games this year -- the coaches and players know the rule and (generally) abide by it or are told to comply and do so without (obvious) complaining.

I'm not sure what the issue was with the picture in the lower left.

Early on when the rule came into effect, you had to tell the teams over and over ( mostly because so many officials would not enforce the rule ) but with time ( 3 games or so ) ALL the players comply with the rule, no exceptions.

If you enforce the rule, any rule, they will follow it. But you must do so as an association.

JRutledge Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan (Post 883446)
Early on when the rule came into effect, you had to tell the teams over and over ( mostly because so many officials would not enforce the rule ) but with time ( 3 games or so ) ALL the players comply with the rule, no exceptions.

If you enforce the rule, any rule, they will follow it. But you must do so as an association.

We do not get games assigned by an association so that is not always the case or a factor around here. And it really does not matter if you do something teams do not always listen to you or the next guy. Actually I am amazed how many coaches do not know things like this that their players are wearing (at least that is what they claim) when these things are addressed directly to them.

Peace

Raymond Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 883448)
We do not get games assigned by an association so that is not always the case or a factor around here. And it really does not matter if you do something teams do not always listen to you or the next guy. Actually I am amazed how many coaches do not know things like this that their players are wearing (at least that is what they claim) when these things are addressed directly to them.

Peace

Shoot, we have a team here in Virginia that will be playing in a State Final Saturday night that was T'd for wearing illegal home jerseys in their semi-final game. They were wearing grey instead of white.

JRutledge Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 883451)
Shoot, we have a team here in Virginia that will be playing in a State Final Saturday night that was T'd for wearing illegal home jerseys in their semi-final game. They were wearing grey instead of white.

How many times do we call a foul that is not only instructed to be called, but is rules based and the teams argue with us about why we called the foul? Why do we think this is somehow different in reaction because it is a uniform issue?

Peace

Camron Rust Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 883448)
We do not get games assigned by an association...

Peace

Really? I didn't know that. :D

JRutledge Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 883466)
Really? I didn't know that. :D

I think the same thing every time someone says on this site what everyone in an association should do. As if to suggest that everyone focuses on the same things even in a group. :)

Peace

BayStateRef Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:33pm

I never found the headband rule to be a big deal. Just enforce it. As others here note, it will clean it up for the rest of us. (You too Billy...don't be kicking that can this way.)

Two weeks ago, just before the state tournament started, one team had headbands of green and black (school colors). I told them they were not legal...and they told me they had them custom made for the tourney. Sorry girls, but you won't be wearing them tonight...and you won't be wearing them in the tourney.

At my first state tourney game, I told one captain she could not wear her illegal headband (multiple logos). Her team plays in a small conference where the adherence to the fashion rules is not as rigid. We are told for the state tourney...no exceptions: enforce the rules.

Rich Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:37pm

After seeing the pictures from Iowa, I'm starting to understand the NFHS's position on this. The rainbow of headbands / pre-wrap looks like complete crap, IMO.

Not that I like having to be the fashion police -- this should be on the coaches, IMO (and having the penalty be a technical foul immediately, even in warmups would take care of this for good), but I get it.

JetMetFan Thu Mar 07, 2013 02:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 883492)
After seeing the pictures from Iowa, I'm starting to understand the NFHS's position on this. The rainbow of headbands / pre-wrap looks like complete crap, IMO.

Not that I like having to be the fashion police -- this should be on the coaches, IMO (and having the penalty be a technical foul immediately, even in warmups would take care of this for good), but I get it.

That's what I felt. I'm one of those who enforces it regularly anyway but looking at that game made me think, "Yeah, the rule makes a little more sense now." Heck, we get an e-mail or two every season about it in NCAAW so if we have to enforce it there might as well take care of business at the H.S. level.

For a few years I've felt schools should make it one of their ACs jobs to have a headband/writstband chart for his/her team on any given day :)

BillyMac Thu Mar 07, 2013 05:30pm

We Have Met The Enemy And He Is Us (Walt Kelly) ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan (Post 883446)
If you enforce the rule, any rule, they will follow it. But you must do so as an association.

In addition to high school basketball, I also work Catholic middle school basketball. The assigner for the Catholic middle school games tells us that all of his officials must enforce all Fashion Police rules: headbands, wristbands, undershirts, etc., and that if he discovers that we aren't doing our job in that regard, we won't get paid. Now we really don't think that he would follow up on that threat, but none of us wants to be a test case, so we enforce the rules. By the second week of play, we don't have any problems, not a single one, with Fashion issues as the players, and coaches, know that we're going to be serious about enforcement.

If little kids coached by some volunteer parents can follow these Fashion rules, then why can't high school players with "professional" coaches? Easy answer, it because we have officials who don't think Fashion issues have any part in officiating basketball games and refuse to enforce these guidelines. One Tuesday night the girls get to wear any color headband that they want, until Friday night comes and they all have to wear the same color, which changes again on the next Tuesday night. I blame us.

Lcubed48 Fri Mar 08, 2013 08:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 883451)
Shoot, we have a team here in Virginia that will be playing in a State Final Saturday night that was T'd for wearing illegal home jerseys in their semi-final game. They were wearing grey instead of white.

Yesterday, a second team was T'd for illegal uniforms. Their jersey top had a manufacturer's logo clearly visible in upper right chest area. The T wasn't called until the start of the 2nd half. They also won, and will be playing in the state final.

Raymond Fri Mar 08, 2013 08:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcubed48 (Post 883645)
Yesterday, a second team was T'd for illegal uniforms. Their jersey top had a manufacturer's logo clearly visible in upper right chest area. The T wasn't called until the start of the 2nd half. They also won, and will be playing in the state final.

Triple-L, that was one of our schools. Have we been lax on our duties this season? I didn't work any of their games this season so I know I'm clean. :D

scrounge Fri Mar 08, 2013 09:33am

I don't think multi-colored headbands look very good, but I'm not all that concerned with it if they got rid of that rule. But metal clips in the hair, clearly visible? Someone gets hurt in the eye during one of the scrums that always seem to happen in girls' games and there's an attorney asking why the state chose to ignore a national safety-related rule. I don't want that liability personally...

JetMetFan Fri Mar 08, 2013 09:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrounge (Post 883667)
I don't think multi-colored headbands look very good, but I'm not all that concerned with it if they got rid of that rule. But metal clips in the hair, clearly visible? Someone gets hurt in the eye during one of the scrums that always seem to happen in girls' games and there's an attorney asking why the state chose to ignore a national safety-related rule. I don't want that liability personally...

You got that right. I'm not sure what makes hair clips smaller than 2" any less likely to poke someone in the eye than hair clips larger than 2". Ignoring that rule is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 883558)
If little kids coached by some volunteer parents can follow these Fashion rules, then why can't high school players with "professional" coaches? Easy answer, it because we have officials who don't think Fashion issues have any part in officiating basketball games and refuse to enforce these guidelines. One Tuesday night the girls get to wear any color headband that they want, until Friday night comes and they all have to wear the same color, which changes again on the next Tuesday night. I blame us.

Yep, it's the us problem either by not knowing the rules or not enforcing them. I rarely work games in NJ but in the three I had during the '10-11 season all three of my partners thought it was okay for a player wearing a white jersey to wear an undershirt that was a school color as opposed to white. To say I was shocked was an understatement. Ultimately, I ended up looking like the bad - or crazy - guy to the coaches in those games when I told them their players couldn't enter/start while wearing those undershirts...and that they had to remove them away from the visual confines of the court.

Lcubed48 Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 883651)
Triple-L, that was one of our schools. Have we been lax on our duties this season? I didn't work any of their games this season so I know I'm clean. :D

I'm likewise clean. It wasn't ever brought up in any of our meetings. Now, it might get on the agenda.

#olderthanilook Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:51am

Do Iowa girls still have 5 players that only play half court offense and 5 girls that only play half court defense?

4-40 Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook (Post 883694)
Do Iowa girls still have 5 players that only play half court offense and 5 girls that only play half court defense?

Heck no, we got rid of that in the early to mid-90s! And it was Six-on-Six, with three offensive players and three defensive players on each half of the court. We have, however, started girls games with a coin flip instead of a jump ball in my short officiating career (less than 15 years).

#olderthanilook Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-40 (Post 883701)
Heck no, we got rid of that in the early to mid-90s! And it was Six-on-Six, with three offensive players and three defensive players on each half of the court. We have, however, started girls games with a coin flip instead of a jump ball in my short officiating career (less than 15 years).

Ah, ok. Thanks for straigtening me out on that.

The coin toss thing is interesting, to say the least. Was that varsity contest?


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