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-   -   Actionless Contest (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/94234-actionless-contest.html)

BktBallRef Sat Mar 02, 2013 09:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 882738)
....put me down as a strong NO vote on the shot clock for HS ball.
Hear! Hear!

Scooby Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:53am
I've had a game like this once in over ten yeas of varsity ball. I Loved It! A nice break. Now if it was 2-3 times a season, that would be a whole different story.

By the way my partner missed a travel in the game. With A1 holding the ball he lifts his right foot and wiped the dust off it and then about a minute latter he did the same with his left foot.

Nevadaref Sun Mar 03, 2013 04:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 882734)
For the relatively few times this occurs, I wouldn't alter the rule book. Yes it stinks as a fan. Yes, it's frustrating as an official. But it's hardly become common enough to warrant a rule change.

Everybody comes across these games occasionally. I've seen it where there's a big disparity between size or speed for a team. The lesser team will try it to either slow the game down to their level or frustrate the other team into commiting dumb fouls. That being said, I've NEVER seen it work successfully for an entire game. I'd love to hear if anyone else has ever seen it used successfully.
Milan vs Muncie Central, 1954 Indiana State Championship Game is a famous example.

Rich Sun Mar 03, 2013 07:50am
Tennessee 11, Temple 6 in 1973. My HS supervisor (since deceased) worked that game.

It's credited with playing a role towards implementing a shot clock in the NCAA, even though it took another decade to do it.

Bad Zebra Sun Mar 03, 2013 08:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 882801)
Milan vs Muncie Central, 1954 Indiana State Championship Game is a famous example.
I'm skeptical, video clip? :D

Tim C Sun Mar 03, 2013 08:34am
Lack of sufficient action
 
One of the neat things about being old is that I was actually alive to witness (through the media) some of the oddities of "stallball."

I remember when USC stalled against UCLA (with Lew Alcindor) and a great photo in the sports pages the day after was Alcindor standing in the key, on defense, and reading the game program.

I attended a high school game in the 80's where a smaller Oregon School had two 7'0 brothers.

The visiting team stalled the first half and it was 4-0.

I went home.

And finally, when I was a high school coach we used the UNC "Four Corners" offense. My point guard was NOT Phil Ford but she could whip any other girl one-on-one.



T

BillyMac Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:45am
Matthew 7:7 ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 882807)
I'm skeptical, video clip?
Black and white:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/p6_Tk_FyoVE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Color:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nE-QSZof_Iw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

26 Year Gap Sun Mar 03, 2013 04:01pm
The Villanova game plan was worked to perfection against Georgetown. From a fan's standpoint, it was a fun game to watch. Even with no 3 point line, the underdog managed 9 for 10 shooting in the second half and they pulled off a huge win. The advent of the shot clock shortly thereafter took away those opportunities to see games like that ever again. For the number of times that an "actionless" contest occurs, adding an expense to schools (see numerous threads on why states do not go to mandatory 3 crew games) and the chance for more errors at the table seem to be counterproductive in my view.

Don't like the stall? Play tight defense and get a five second count.

BillyMac Sun Mar 03, 2013 04:06pm
Give That Man A Cigar ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 882834)
Don't like the stall? Play tight defense and get a five second count.
Bingo.

stripes Mon Mar 04, 2013 04:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fed2You (Post 882717)
Utah 5A boys semi-finals. 1st qtr is going along fine till about half way through, after a timeout. Team A inbounds the ball and passes to the PG standing just inside his frontcourt.....and he proceeds to stand there for the next 3 1/2 minutes. Team B is in a 2-3 zone and won't come out. Crowd was booing to beat all heck. Team A finally tries for the last shot of the quarter and misses. :confused:

2nd quarter, Team A's ball on AP. SAME EXACT THING. The entire 2nd quarter was squandered until Team A tried for the final shot of the half and missed. :mad: Score: 14-7, Team B up. Thankfully, 3rd and 4th quarters were normal and Team B beat the wheels off of Team A. :)

Hopefully Utah will have a shot clock next year, at least for Regionals and beyond because of this. I've never seen anything like it. :confused: As a fan i was pissed. As a ref, I would have been incredibly frustrated. Seems like there should be something we can do, but which team has the onus to force action? Bring in the shot clock!
I could not disagree more with the need for a shot clock. The second half proved that Brighton could not keep up with Lone Peak. Their only chance (in the coach's eyes) was to shorten the game. Brighton went into halftime only down 7...that is a lot better than most teams who played LP this season. If Brighton would have been forced to shoot every 30-45 seconds, they stood no chance. I support the use a shot clock in college. Coaches are paid to bring in good players. In Utah HS bball, coaches cannot do this and a shot clock, IMO, makes the rich richer. Teams with less talent become even less talented with the shot clock.

I was one of the three officials working the game and it was boring, but I have NO PROBLEM with the decision to hold the ball.

26 Year Gap Mon Mar 04, 2013 07:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes (Post 883062)
I could not disagree more with the need for a shot clock. The second half proved that Brighton could not keep up with Lone Peak. Their only chance (in the coach's eyes) was to shorten the game. Brighton went into halftime only down 7...that is a lot better than most teams who played LP this season. If Brighton would have been forced to shoot every 30-45 seconds, they stood no chance. I support the use a shot clock in college. Coaches are paid to bring in good players. In Utah HS bball, coaches cannot do this and a shot clock, IMO, makes the rich richer. Teams with less talent become even less talented with the shot clock.

I was one of the three officials working the game and it was boring, but I have NO PROBLEM with the decision to hold the ball.
Great point. I sat next to a lady a number of years ago whose son was the 6-8 star of a team that was playing my old high school. My alma mater had nobody taller than 6-1 and the visitors had a couple other players 6-5. The home team stalled and ended up losing 28-20. Gave up a couple of late buckets. The lady complained the entire time. Her kid wasn't able to hit his 25 point average that night, I guess. But, beating that team would have made the home team eligible for the state tournament, so the strategy was the absolute correct one to use.

Play tight man to man defense, and it won't be an issue. Can't play tight man to man? Not anyone else's problem.

bainsey Mon Mar 04, 2013 08:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 883086)
Play tight man to man defense, and it won't be an issue. Can't play tight man to man? Not anyone else's problem.
There it is. I'm usually amused by the booing, which typically comes from the defensive team's contingent. Little do they realize they're half the problem.

Fortunately, we only saw the stall-ball once in our tourney. (Easton/Hodgdon, for Gapper's interest.) Of course, the cries for the shot clock come, but considering a shot comes every 16 seconds, on average, I don't see the point.

Zoochy Tue Mar 05, 2013 06:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby (Post 882794)
By the way my partner missed a travel in the game. With A1 holding the ball he lifts his right foot and wiped the dust off it and then about a minute latter he did the same with his left foot.
I had a game where team A is holding for last shot and player did a wipe of both feet. I called the Travel violation. I was so proud of myself and I smiled after making the call.
Also had a team stall upon inbounding the ball to begin the 3rd quarter. I am glad I was the lead official. I did not know if the player holding the ball had pivoted or dribbled. Luckly, she passed the ball when they decided to run a play.
hear is a thought.... if we know Team A is going to stall until 1 minute to play in the quarter and Team B does not want to apply pressure, then can we call an official TO, shorten the quarter to 1 minute and pick up where we left off with Team A inbounding the ball?:D

bob jenkins Tue Mar 05, 2013 06:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoochy (Post 883242)
if we know Team A is going to stall until 1 minute to play in the quarter and Team B does not want to apply pressure, then can we call an official TO, shorten the quarter to 1 minute and pick up where we left off with Team A inbounding the ball?:D
The coaches have to decide, with the approval of the referee. See post #8

fullor30 Tue Mar 05, 2013 07:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 882801)
Milan vs Muncie Central, 1954 Indiana State Championship Game is a famous example.

The team that Hoosiers was based on. I believe Milan held the ball for the last 3 1/2 minutes before Bobby Plumb(Jimmy Chitwood to you hoosier fans) took the last shot. I also believe he had missed his last 10 shots.

3/18 at an art cinema theater in Chicago, they are having a one night showing of Hoosiers followed by a discussion led by the Chicago Tribune film critic along with a sports columnist. Bought tickets a month ago.


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