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Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 882675)

We worry way too much about what coaches think. And I say that with coaches and a ratings system they are involved in my state.

Peace

This is very close to my belief and I too come from a rating system that until this year was 100% coaches' rating. This year it is 50%.

I prefer to say, I think we worry too much about trying to manipulate an amicable solution to every situation a coach throws at us. Call a good game, be respectful. The rest will work itself out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scratch85 (Post 882682)

Call a good game, be respectful. The rest will work itself out.

+1

We will never win in a confrontation with a Coach. It doesn't matter how far across the line he/she goes - what the tape will show is our bad behavior back.

Friend of mine put it this way to me a few years ago - "Never get into a pissing match with a Coach. They will always be bigger pissers than we are."
(RIP Jurassic)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 882684)

+1

We will never win in a confrontation with a Coach. It doesn't matter how far across the line he/she goes - what the tape will show is our bad behavior back.

Friend of mine put it this way to me a few years ago - "Never get into a pissing match with a Coach. They will always be bigger pissers than we are."(RIP Jurassic)

Pure gold

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bird Dog (Post 882650)

Coach: (Caps indicate screaming) HOW WAS THAT A FOUL?!
Me: I saw number 24 foul, coach.
Coach: HOW?!
Me: He held his arm.
Coach: HE GOT ALL BALL!
Me: [silence, no eye contact w/ coach]
Coach: ...CAN YOU ANSWER ME THAT?
Me: You didn't ask a question.
Coach: WHERE WAS THE FOUL!?
Me: [moment of awkward silence, then screaming] I SAW WHAT I SAW COACH!
Coach: WELL YOU'RE A HORRIBLE REF!!
Me: THAT'S A 'T!'

Here's (close to) an actual conversation from this past year from a JV match:

Coach: HE DID'T FOUL HIM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING AT!
Me: Do you have a question, coach?
Coach: WHERE WAS THE FOUL!?
Me: He grabbed his arm, coach.
COACH: HE DID NOT!
Me: Look, the offensive player and your player, 34, were both facing me [I was lead in 2-man, opposite table-side]... meaning both players had there back to you. So you did not have the view that I did... I had a clear view of the play right in front of me, saw the grab and BLEW MY WHISTLE!
Coach: WELL THAT'S TERRIBLE... ARE YOU A JV REF OR VARSITY REF?
Me: [argumentative tone] Are you the head coach or the JV coach?
Coach: [glares at me]
Me: [silence, glancing at coach with raised eyebrows]
Coach: [trying to calm down] JV or Varsity?
Me: [trying to calm, but still sarcastic] I am licensed by the KHSAA to call any sanctioned game [our assignor] chooses to give me regardless of level.
Coach: [angry tone] Well your horrible.
Me: [angry tone] Unsportsmanlike. That's your 'T' Coach.

At least you're learning :) As time goes on you'll realize fewer words are better because, try as we might, we're not going to make some coaches happy and that's not our job anyway.

Just my $0.02 but...In scenario #1 after "How was that a foul?!" if you just stopped at "Coach, he held his arm" it might have ended there. If he goes on in the way you say he did, I stop talking. He'll get the idea.

In scenario #2, I probably don't say a word to him after his first comment unless he's acted out before. In that case he may get "Coach, that's enough." If he actually got to the "where was the foul?" question then sure, tell him #34 grabbed his arm. Don't even bother with the extended explanation since he doesn't want to hear it anyway. The question about what level you work should shut down any conversation with him for the rest of the game and, in IMO, at least an official warning. Engaging with crazy can only lead to more crazy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bird Dog (Post 882650)

My second year now done, I can reflect on where I need to make improvements.

While there are certainly more areas tan just this one, I think my communication with coaches can be greatly improved. Sample exchange from my 1st year:

Coach: (Caps indicate screaming) HOW WAS THAT A FOUL?!
Me: I saw number 24 foul, coach.
Coach: HOW?!
Me: He held his arm.
Coach: HE GOT ALL BALL!
Me: [silence, no eye contact w/ coach]
Coach: ...CAN YOU ANSWER ME THAT?
Me: You didn't ask a question.
Coach: WHERE WAS THE FOUL!?
Me: [moment of awkward silence, then screaming] I SAW WHAT I SAW COACH!
Coach: WELL YOU'RE A HORRIBLE REF!!
Me: THAT'S A 'T!'

As others have said, there's no need for this last comment.

IF, you address his first yell, it's by telling him to calm down. "Coach, if you have a question, then ask it appropriately. Don't try to coach me."

If he continues to scream at you, T time.

By the time you got to the T, you'd allowed yourself to get too emotional. Shut him down or T him sooner, before you get to that point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bird Dog (Post 882650)

Here's (close to) an actual conversation from this past year from a JV match:

Coach: HE DID'T FOUL HIM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING AT!
Me: Do you have a question, coach?
Coach: WHERE WAS THE FOUL!?
Me: He grabbed his arm, coach.
COACH: HE DID NOT!
Me: Look, the offensive player and your player, 34, were both facing me [I was lead in 2-man, opposite table-side]... meaning both players had there back to you. So you did not have the view that I did... I had a clear view of the play right in front of me, saw the grab and BLEW MY WHISTLE!
Coach: WELL THAT'S TERRIBLE... ARE YOU A JV REF OR VARSITY REF?
Me: [argumentative tone] Are you the head coach or the JV coach?
Coach: [glares at me]
Me: [silence, glancing at coach with raised eyebrows]
Coach: [trying to calm down] JV or Varsity?
Me: [trying to calm, but still sarcastic] I am licensed by the KHSAA to call any sanctioned game [our assignor] chooses to give me regardless of level.
Coach: [angry tone] Well your horrible.
Me: [angry tone] Unsportsmanlike. That's your 'T' Coach.

Again, no need for this last comment. Blow your whistle, talk to your partner, and report the T to the table. You have no need to tell the coach anything. There's no point.

Other than you're elongated explanation, this isn't so bad up to the point where I would have called the T. In this conversation, at that volume, I'm highly unlikely to respond anyway but a T to this. I certainly wouldn't have asked him your follow-up question. This is where you fell into his trap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bird dog (Post 882650)

coach: where was the foul!?

On the court, coach. ;)

I've actually said that.

Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
I have this on the wall, above my computer, where I check my game assignments, each day. It's especially useful on days that I will be officiating AAU games . . .:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 882684)

Quote:

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook (Post 882685)

Pure gold

Literally.

If the coach wants to argue judgement, the conversation is over.

After he asks "How was that a foul?" or "Where's the foul?", answer much as you did..."#34 grabbed the shooter's arm, coach."

After that, there will be no more discussion about judgement. Further comments such as "Oh, he did not!" or "He got all ball!" are then basically ignored. If he keeps it up, a simple statement like "I'm not going to discuss judgement with you coach, that's enough" is warranted. You have now issued the warning, allowed him to vent, and we move on. Next step is the T if needed.

As was previously said, you need to keep you emotions in check, we as officials need to rise above the level of the coach. Easy to say, but hard to do.

Keep working on it...communication is a skill that can advance your officiating career.

"Coach I saw it differently"...then move on

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 882981)

"Coach I saw it differently"...then move on

And coaches still will argue with that comment. It really does not matter what you say if a coach wants to have a bug up their behinds about something and do not understand common sense. If they did understand common sense, they would not ask the stupid questions they do when you clearly made a call.

Peace

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 882984)

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac302/dhs77/ROFL.gif

So true...

Someone talked recently about Verbal Judo. Been reading it and loving it. It has been helping me with a Bipolar kid and it has been helping me a lot with coaches and players.

Big part of it is not to take anything personally. They dont understand our training and why we call the game the way we do. Or they are trying to show their teammates or players they are fighting for them. If you know you are doing a good job or/and got the play right dont let them get in your head.

Is it really bad to if the coach is yelling to go straight to the hand and say that is enough. Clearly they are out of control and need to understand we are not going to have them yell at us period.

Whomever suggested the book.. thanks its the best $16 bucks I have spent in some time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigT (Post 883031)

I'll "+1" that book as well. It really does help you understand why the other side (coaches) act the way that they do, and it gives you some pointers as to how to bring them back down to a reasonable level. I've read it twice this season, and plan on reading it once more before next season begins. Good stuff in that book.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maven (Post 882662)

Coach: He did not!/That's not what happened!/No way!
You: Coach if it happened your way then I missed it. Now we're going to get back to the game.

Over the years as I matured...some argue I still haven't...this is the approach I most often take unless they don't offer me the opportunity to get to this point. I have no problem with saying "Not saying I haven't missed a call in my life but I saw X so that is what we are going with." 90% of the coaches I have encountered will drop it or at least begin to cool down after this. I think many of our compadres that refuse to admit error cause coaches to look at us like we think we are above the game.