As officials we take the brunt of a lot things, a lot of which we shouldn't but that's how it goes.

In this instance it's easily on the scorer for giving incorrect information. Just as if they notified us of a 7th team foul when it was really 6 or vice versa.

And as you mentioned, at the Varsity level 99.9% of coaches have their own scorer and an assistant tracking timeouts. If they have a discrepancy when we inform they are out of timeouts they should bring it up with the official book then. So your situation was also on the coaching staff for not verifying that their own book matched up with the info from the scorer. It's not on you by any means for simply doing what, by rule, you are suppose to do.

To just say you aren't going to do what the rules say you are to do b/c you had ONE bad experience with it is kind of lame. Particularly when I think it will prevent problems A LOT more than it will cause them.

And for the record, I am someone who absolutely does not tell teams how many timeouts they have left except when they are out and when my partners tell me team A has 2 TOs left and team B has 3, I let them know I do not care to know unless they have zero.

This is not a big deal, but I have no idea what that means.

Well this seems to be a communication problem. That play should have been communicated to at least the crew so that everyone was on the same page. All this confusion did was give the coach some ammo to complain. I had a situation in a game this year during an OT jump ball, when we had possession by A1 and B1 came and caused a held ball. I had to explain to the coach immediately what we had and it took about 30 seconds so that we did not have an issue later. If it was explained better when it happened, you might not have had the confusion later.

Peace

If you tell the coach and s/he thinks s/he still has one left, then you can get it straightened out then.

If you tell the coach and s/he doesn't know s/he really has one left, then it's on them, no matter how much they try to drag you under the bus with them.

If I'm table side on the jump, I'm coming in to ask you about the OOB to be sure we are all on the same page about the arrow. I might even be "obvious" about telling the table which way to set it so the coaches know.

Any time there's a TO in a close game near the end, the officials should get together and all should be reminded of the TO situation and know who is going to tell the coach.

BTW, I always phrase it, "I know you know this, but I'm required to tell you ..." And, I show it with a fist so it shows up on tape.

That's a good way to look at it.

That is confusing..I had seen the coach at the store a couple days prior and he told me they planned on being blown out...but it is my experience that late in the season teams pull off upsets you never thought they would.



Definate communication issue. I take blame because I didn't realize that the play on the tip was that close. It seemed obvious to me that the kid caught it and went OOB. Lesson learned.

Bob-I do the same thing upon a team calling its final timeout.Upon signaling what it is (I always signal what the last one is) I put a closed fist into the air to signify last timeout for whichever team is using it and then notify the reporting official that it was the last timeout.Notification for me is like this "(First Name of reporting official)-final time out for (Insert Color)."

The Old Lead/New Trail should not even be looking for a time-out call during this free throw sequence. There is an official, Old Trail/New Lead, who is standing right there by the coach who can handle any request that may come from the HC.

How prorated or pre-emptive are you talking about? I had a situation where Team A was down 5 points with the ball. I was C, tableside, right in front of Team A's bench. Team A attempted a 3-point try. While it was in midair, Team A coach said to me, "timeout if it goes". Swish, timeout, Team A still lost. Is this something you would do or not?

Another situation in the same game, maybe 10 seconds later. I am still C, still tableside. Team B is attempting a frontcourt throw-in near the division line opposite the table. I am in front of team B's bench. The Trail across the court starts his five-second count, and Team B coach tells me he wants a timeout if they cannot inbound the ball. As the Trail is counting, Team B coach is counting out loud, "one, two three". He got to four and almost asked me for it, but his team got the ball in.

I presume doing these things is ok, but are these the prorated or pre-emptive TO's you gentlemen are talking about? If not, what would an example be?

Perhaps to make sure the players were not DQ'd on a cheap foul?

I really like the part about the tape. Putting it in my game.

Ill look at the coach after the make for confirmation and then I will blow my whistle. I am acknowledging the TO on the make but not blowing my whistle without confirmation.

In the second stitch I would have to hear him actually request a TO.

I would grant the first but not the second without visual confirmation first.

As has been said before, sometimes we're our own worst enemies.

Regarding the OP, ditto on what everyone else has said. The AP problem goes away with communication right when the issue happens after the jump ball. We should always take a second as a crew to talk when something unusual happens. It's the R's responsibility to make sure the arrow is set initially but ultimately it's the entire crew's responsibility.

The time out situation is a game management issue on the part of the crew. It's late in the game and one team calls time out. We have that dead ball period to go to the table and check on the time out situation for both teams. It's a close game. Chances are one or both teams will be close to running out. If one team has none, notify that team as per the rule book. If that team calls time out after that, it's on them.

As for this, I'm with everyone else concerning the "I don't care.." line. If I'm your supervisor, I tell you "I don't care how you feel, do what the book says in that spot." Period. If the official scorer tells you Team A has no more time outs, cover yourself by asking again to confirm...then you ask the other team's scorer if that's what they have. If everyone agrees, tell Team A's coach. By rule we don't have to do that but the extra ten seconds won't kill you plus at that point you've done your job. If it's later realized by the table that Team A had one remaining, so be it. If the coach questions me, I tell him/her: "Coach, that's what I was told and I double checked it." They might be upset but they'll live.

Also, how would you "take the brunt" of anything? Was the scorer running around with a bullhorn saying "Team A had another time out!" If he/she messed that up, I get on them, especially if it's an official. I can't assume many things but I should be able to trust that an adult can count to five.

I work 99% of my H.S. games with students at the table so I've grown wary of trusting them outright and if something sounds wrong I'll question it. My partners and I also try to communicate early and often with them. However, they are still going to make mistakes. If we've done our part then the best I can do is tell the coach there was a mistake, we correct it and we move on.

I will ask it sometimes after the 3rd quarter but only for both scorekeepers to compare their books so we don't have any surprises in the 4th quarter where 1 scorekeeper says A1 only has 4 fouls while the other says A1 has 5 fouls.

Me too. The second one was meant to prep me in case his team could not inbound the ball. Like "hey, be aware I am calling timeout if we can't get the ball in". I would certainly not want to be in a situation where my partner calls a 5-second violation on the inbound, and I come over and say "well, the coach wanted a TO before the violation, so no violation". That will never happen, believe me.