Two hurt players situation--How would you handle it

[mplagrow]

Had a messy situation tonight. Team A is ahead by one but down to four eligible players with thirty seconds left. A1 is driving while B1 is trying to foul. A2 and A1 collide, simultaneous with a whistle on B1 for a foul. Both A1 and A2 are writhing on the floor in pain. Bench personnel come onto the floor to attend to both players.

Both players eventually get up, after being attended to. A1 is supposed to shoot bonus shots. How would you handle it? A is already playing short one player, but two girls were down hurt and no bench personnel available.

[BLydic]

Any timeouts available?

[mplagrow]

Yes, she did have time outs. So should we have had her 'buy' them in with a timeout?

Originally Posted by BLydic

Any timeouts available?

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by mplagrow

Yes, she did have time outs. So should we have had her 'buy' them in with a timeout?

I don't think you can waive the substitution for injury based on the depth of the bench. By rule, the players were attended to and need to be substituted out of the game.

How did you handle the situation?

Anytime there's an injured player that has been attended to by the coach or bench personnel, especially towards the end of the game, we've been asked to remind coaches, as a courtesy, of their option to keep the player in by calling a timeout.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BLydic

I don't think you can waive the substitution for injury based on the depth of the bench. By rule, the players were attended to and need to be substituted out of the game.

A player doesn't always have to sit a tick:

8.2 SITUATION B: A1 is fouled and will be shooting two free throws. After A1’s
first free-throw attempt, B6 (Team B’s only remaining eligible substitute) replaces
B2. A1’s second free-throw attempt is unsuccessful. During rebounding action for
A1’s missed second free-throw attempt, and before the clock starts, A1 pushes B3
in the back causing B3 to roll an ankle. Team B is in the bonus. B3 is unable to
immediately continue playing. Team B requests and is granted a time out in order
to allow B3 to recover from the ankle injury so as to remain in the game. B3 is still
not able to play after the time out has ended. RULING: B2 may return to the game
and replace B3 and shoot B3’s free throw attempts despite having been replaced
since he/she is the only available substitute. (3-3-4)

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A player doesn't always have to sit a tick:

8.2 SITUATION B: A1 is fouled and will be shooting two free throws. After A1’s
first free-throw attempt, B6 (Team B’s only remaining eligible substitute) replaces
B2. A1’s second free-throw attempt is unsuccessful. During rebounding action for
A1’s missed second free-throw attempt, and before the clock starts, A1 pushes B3
in the back causing B3 to roll an ankle. Team B is in the bonus. B3 is unable to
immediately continue playing. Team B requests and is granted a time out in order
to allow B3 to recover from the ankle injury so as to remain in the game. B3 is still
not able to play after the time out has ended. RULING: B2 may return to the game
and replace B3 and shoot B3’s free throw attempts despite having been replaced
since he/she is the only available substitute. (3-3-4)

While there's a difference between a substitution due to injury and a substitute having to sit a tic, I appreciate you posting the caseplay.

[just another ref]

You say they got up. Were they in good enough shape to stay in the game?
If so, the offended player can shoot. If there are no available subs, the player having to leave the game does not apply.

[mplagrow]

They were both good enough to stay in, but at the time it seemed to me that with the coach coming out, a player needed to come out of the game until the next sub opportunity.

Originally Posted by mplagrow

They were both good enough to stay in, but at the time it seemed to me that with the coach coming out, a player needed to come out of the game until the next sub opportunity.

With no bench players, and thus no subs, I think that rule about players having to come out of the game could be waived. Unless A1 was so hurt she could not shoot the shots (in which case the other coach chooses the foul shooter, correct?), I don't think either player should be forced to sit out until the next sub.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

With no bench players, and thus no subs, I think that rule about players having to come out of the game could be waived. Unless A1 was so hurt she could not shoot the shots (in which case the other coach chooses the foul shooter, correct?), I don't think either player should be forced to sit out until the next sub.

No, the other coach doesn't get to choose the free throw shooter unless they are playing by NCAA rules.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

No, the other coach doesn't get to choose the free throw shooter unless they are playing by NCAA rules.

Yeah, that was something I saw in an NCAA game this year. How would you deal with it on the HS level?

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

No, the other coach doesn't get to choose the free throw shooter unless they are playing by NCAA rules.

NCAA-M only.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by mplagrow

Had a messy situation tonight. Team A is ahead by one but down to four eligible players with thirty seconds left. A1 is driving while B1 is trying to foul. A2 and A1 collide, simultaneous with a whistle on B1 for a foul. Both A1 and A2 are writhing on the floor in pain. Bench personnel come onto the floor to attend to both players.

Both players eventually get up, after being attended to. A1 is supposed to shoot bonus shots. How would you handle it? A is already playing short one player, but two girls were down hurt and no bench personnel available.

This is going to sound harsh, but at least one, if not both players shall leave the game.

What your question does not say is if the coach/trainer attended to just one of, or both of the team A players. If both were attended to, then both need to leave the game. The team captain/coach would then be allowed to choose who will take the free throws in replacement of A1, assuming she was attended to.

With all of that said, I would be making sure both players were actually attended to, and the coach/trainer didn't attend to one and just simple ask the other "Are you ok?"

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

This is going to sound harsh, but at least one, if not both players shall leave the game.

What your question does not say is if the coach/trainer attended to just one of, or both of the team A players. If both were attended to, then both need to leave the game. The team captain/coach would then be allowed to choose who will take the free throws in replacement of A1, assuming she was attended to.

With all of that said, I would be making sure both players were actually attended to, and the coach/trainer didn't attend to one and just simple ask the other "Are you ok?"

I don't know if I agree with that. What's the line between 'attending to' and checking if they're OK? That seems like a grey area to me. Whether a coach/trainer has been called out on the other hand is not. But it's a valid question, and one that somebody asked us after the game--why didn't both have to sit out a play? I don't see it as my role as a ref to determine the amount of attending that took place. The more I think about it, I should have strongly suggested the time out.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

This is going to sound harsh, but at least one, if not both players shall leave the game.

What your question does not say is if the coach/trainer attended to just one of, or both of the team A players. If both were attended to, then both need to leave the game. The team captain/coach would then be allowed to choose who will take the free throws in replacement of A1, assuming she was attended to.

With all of that said, I would be making sure both players were actually attended to, and the coach/trainer didn't attend to one and just simple ask the other "Are you ok?"

You'll need some rules basis to back this up. If you beckon a coach, it doesn't matter if they attended to the player or not.