When is A jump stop consider a travel?
 

If the dribbler jump stops 5ft from where he picked up his dribble, is that a travel?

Thanks

Coach Lou

It depends if he legally executed the jump stop or not. There is not specific distance that constitutes a travel.

Dribbler picks up dribble jumps off 1 foot, must land simultaneously on both feet, can use either foot as pivot, but what can happen is they will land with one foot hitting before the other and then take a step to shoot or pass which is a travel. Distance on jump is inconsequential, IMO.

Are you sure?

:confused: 4-44-2

Doesn't this make it a travel?

If the I read the rule correctly:

The distance is not an issue.

How high the player jumps is not an issue.

But, the player MAY NOT pivot.

Correct?

My bad, he can lift either foot to shoot or pass after he lands simultaneously on both feet.

That's one of the more interesting concepts I've ever seen proposed in the forum.

What caused you to ask this question?

The first two parts are correct.

The second depends on what you mean by "jump stop". I don't think the term is specifically defined in NFHS rules, and it's generally used to refer to two different scenarios. Under one the player can pivot, under the other the player cannot pivot.

So, you'll need to be more specific about exactly what transpired.

Honestly, I hesitate a lot before making this call. I like to be 100 percent sure that the player traveled.

On that note, more and more players jump stop now a days (in my area anyways) and some officials tend to call it a travel very quickly.

I coach and official. I like to make sure I have my proper arguments for both situations.

Thanks

Sorry, when I say "jump stop" I'm referring to:
Dribbler picks up dribble jumps off 1 foot and lands simultaneously on both feet. So, does the distance he travels in the air play a part on wether it's a violation or not?

A legitimate "jump stop" is not a travel. Distance is irrelevant.

Distance never matters.

In the play you describe, the player cannot pivot. If the feet don't land simultaneously, the play is a travel (some small allowance on simultaneously is ofen made).

In the play where the player gathers the ball in the air, then lands on both feet, either can be the pivot. If one foot lands first, that foot is the pivot.

Sometimes it can be very difficult to tell the difference between play 1 and play 2, especially if the player is "gathering" just as the player is leaving the gound.

Whether you mean jump stop:

A) The player gathers the ball on 1 foot and hops to land on two.

B) Player hops and gathers the ball to land on two.

The distance travelled in the hop is irrelevant it just makes it a tougher move to defend (because of the correlation to the agility and athleticism needed to execute it legally).

Without getting back into it, I think this board has discussed many times the difficulties and inconsistencies in travel calls.

Coach, It comes down to when the dribble ended. If the dribble ends before the player jumped off of the one foot (in your example) then they must land simultaneously on two feet and they may not pivot. If the dribble ended after the one foot left the ground (so mid jump) then the player may land on one or two feet with the first foot becoming the pivot foot.

I still would like to know how distance travelled got into the equation. Did someone suggest it to you or does it just look funny if someone can jump that far?

My favorite topic: travel on the jump stop. Video should answer questions

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The question has been asked by coaches.
Examples:
A player "jump stops" from behind the 3pt line and lands by the 2 feet in front of the ft line.

Most HS age atheltes should be able to jump > 6 feet from a standing start. Give them a moving start (as on a dribble) and landing where you suggest shouldn't be a problem at all. It's all in whether they "stick the landing" (in the coach's play).

So some coach think the rules define traveling in terms of how far a player can jump?

Wow.

Rule change for '13-'14, coaches have to take same test as officials?? :D

Edit: On second thought, not sure if that would increase our headaches or decrease them...

Good idea. I wouldn't make this a condition of coaching, but if they fail the test they must wear a dunce cap to every contest.

Coaches complain as it is. And Even worse when it looks funny. Especially if their own players can't stop it or do the same as the other players.

"Coach, ugly is not illegal."

Useful because without being confrontational it acknowledges the accuracy of the coach's perception that something unusual and bad happened while asserting the correctness of the no-call by rule.

That is why I often ask (when I have time), "Which one was the pivot foot?" Usually stops a lot of conversations about traveling because coaches often use myths or non-rulebook standards to complain.

Traveling is all about the pivot foot and what they can do with one if they established one (or both in some cases).

Peace

In Kansas, head coaches are in fact required to take the same NFHS test as officials and pass it.

That being said, they all get the answers from somewhere and pass them around to each other, so...

Used a similar line last week, "that was just an awkward, ugly dribble."

I said this earlier this season to a coach on a high dribble that he wanted called a carry. His response was "I played basketball, I know what a carry is!"

This just happenes to be the coach that I ejected in the 4th quarter of that same game.

Fixed that part anyway. No charge.

So......picked up dribble, one step, simultaneous jump stop, can they then create a pivot foot out of this or are they frozen?

Neither. They can lift one or both feet (jump), but cannot put the foot/feet back down.

Assuming, of course, that by "one step" you mean "lands on one foot."

I'm just going to leave this here... Vertical Video Syndrome - A PSA - YouTube

:)

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Wow... just wow. That was nice.

YouTube

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According to this guy you can pivot after a jump start....?

Well my computer won't play the audio (which is probably a good thing), but I would direct the speaker to Rule 4-44-2 and ask him to justify his assertion. Check that one out and see what you think - is he right?

It depends one when the ball is gathered and what the player does afterward...

If the ball is gathered with a foot on the floor, the player may jump off that foot and land simultaneously on both feet...he MAY NOT pivot at this point.

If the ball is gathered while both feet are in the air, the player may land simultaneously and may pivot with either foot.

Finally, if a player gathers the ball with both feet in the air, lands on one foot...then lands simultaneously on both feet, he MAY NOT pivot at this point.

APG, instead of embedding all these videos for people, why not instruct them how?

Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. Teach a man how to embed videos, he will know how forever (or until he forgets)...

You can start with me! LOL :)

I tried like 4-5 times, including copying from what someone else had done ... still didn't work, so I said eff it!!

Sure. Here is the easiest way I have found. Do not use the embed feature on this website. If you have a YouTube video, go to the video page. Under the video is the word "Share". Click it. A shortened link to the video will pop up. Do not worry about it. Click the word "Embed", which is just below the "Share" button. Once you hit "Embed", you can copy the information there directly into your post on here. Additionally, you can select different options, such as Suggested Videos, Video Size, etc.

Other video sites have similar features. Just poke around with the Share options and you should find something.

Yeah Sean ... I did that but it wasn't working ... I will try again sometime when I have more time to mess with it — I don't post too many videos ... or that often at all really :)

Don't worry Sean, we'll get Brad straightened out. :D

And he's correct -- as he's defined "jump stop". That's just one of the definitions / uses though.

there was plenty already in this thread for you to have figured that out.

Have a Snickers ... it's gonna be a while!

Ooh, Brad made an umpire joke.

The one I see missed most often is the player that jumps off TWO feet, and then lands on both feet. "That's a jump stop!"

No, that's traveling.

And here is a guy who made a video and finally is going to "clear the air" about pivoting after a jump stop. As Lee Corso states "not so fast my friend"


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However I would never call this a travel, I can never tell if he gathers with one foot on floor or gathers with both feet off the floor. If in doubt don't blow the whistle. This would never be called a travel by high level officials

The rule book clears the air about pivoting after a jump stop.