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-   -   FSU @ GA Tech...final shot (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/93909-fsu-ga-tech-final-shot.html)

Tio Wed Feb 06, 2013 01:46pm
Hands, hands, hands. His hand is on the offensive player and it never leaves. A call would clean up the mess that follows.

#olderthanilook Wed Feb 06, 2013 01:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrutledge (Post 877372)
i have a handcheck long before anything else.

Peace
+1

constable Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:55am
In this order here is what I have

1. Travel
2. Hand check
3. a flop. I think there is some embellishment on the part of the defender.

HawkeyeCubP Fri Feb 08, 2013 01:39pm
Travel then PC.

rockyroad Fri Feb 08, 2013 01:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by constable (Post 877861)
In this order here is what I have

1. Travel
2. Hand check
3. a flop. I think there is some embellishment on the part of the defender.
Just curious...Why would you have the travel BEFORE the hand check? Seems like that hand is on the bicep/shoulder of the ball handler, and exerting pressure from the looks of it, well before he steps back to get away from the contact.

JRutledge Fri Feb 08, 2013 02:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekent (Post 877426)
Is this something that honestly would be allowed regularly in a game though at a high school level? In the NBA I would expect it, to a lesser degree NCAA, but I would have thought this would be pretty close to automatic in HS games - it look like he shuffles backwards approximately 4 feet.
For the record there are more hand checking calls in NCAA and NBA (even more in the NBA) than I see in HS games. I also would not really care what my partner has been calling either as I would have a foul regardless if the continuous hand made the defender do something they would not have done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 877919)
Just curious...Why would you have the travel BEFORE the hand check? Seems like that hand is on the bicep/shoulder of the ball handler, and exerting pressure from the looks of it, well before he steps back to get away from the contact.
And under NCAA guidelines, it is illegal to have a continuous hand on a ball handler. So the travel should not be called IMO.

Peace

bainsey Fri Feb 08, 2013 03:55pm
The question is whether the hand contact caused the travel, therefore resulting in a hand check foul. I could easily go with that.

just another ref Fri Feb 08, 2013 04:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 877941)
The question is whether the hand contact caused the travel, therefore resulting in a hand check foul. I could easily go with that.
The hand check did not cause the travel, in my opinion, but it doesn't have to to be a foul.

rockyroad Fri Feb 08, 2013 04:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 877942)
The hand check did not cause the travel, in my opinion, but it doesn't have to to be a foul.
It did not CAUSE the travel in the sense that the defender did not push the ball handler backward. But did it CAUSE the travel in the sense that in order to start his move to the basket the ball handler had to step backward to get away from the illegal contact?

I just didn't understand why the previous poster would put the travel call ahead of the hand check call in his prioritized list of calls.

just another ref Fri Feb 08, 2013 04:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 877943)
I just didn't understand why the previous poster would put the travel call ahead of the hand check call in his prioritized list of calls.
I suppose the argument could be made that there was no hand check foul to call. (minimal contact, no advantage gained, etc.) I don't see how anyone could say there was no travel.

OKREF Fri Feb 08, 2013 05:11pm
That is an easy obvious travel. Also when the obvious hand check wasn't called, no way he was calling the obvious push off

MD Longhorn Fri Feb 08, 2013 05:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 877372)
I have a handcheck long before anything else.

Peace
This. A long, 3-second handcheck that actually pushes the offensive player back a bit.

But if the HC doesn't happen, then hell yes that's a PC.

MD Longhorn Fri Feb 08, 2013 05:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 877489)
This would be a travel in any game I work, but that's just me. If I happened to miss the travel, I would hope I would get the hand check or the PC.
So we don't think the travel was CAUSED by the HC? I do.

MD Longhorn Fri Feb 08, 2013 05:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 877944)
I suppose the argument could be made that there was no hand check foul to call. (minimal contact, no advantage gained, etc.) I don't see how anyone could say there was no travel.
Literally LOL at this.

I don't see how anyone could say there was no advantage gained by a continuous push that forced the dribbler to travel.

JetMetFan Fri Feb 08, 2013 06:34pm
The NCAA rule book when it comes to contact on the dribbler...
 
Appendix III (edited to deal with this scenario)

Quote:
Ball Handler or Dribbler
a. Definition. A ball handler or dribbler is any player with player control holding or dribbling) outside the lane area, either facing or with her back to the basket. An arm-bar is contact with the forearm that is away from the body.

b. Legal activity. The following are examples of legal activity:
1. A one hand “measure up” by the defense. This means, one hand (front or back of the hand) contacting the ball-handler/dribbler and immediately removing that hand. Also known as a “hot stove” touch. This is the ONLY hand contact that is legal by the defense and is considered incidental.

c. Illegal contact. A foul shall be called when:

2. The defender places a hand (front or back of the hand) on the ball-handler/dribbler and keeps it on.
3. The defender contacts the ball-handler/dribbler more than once with the same hand or with alternating hands.
Which is a long way of saying an actual push isn't necessary. If a defender leaves a hand on it's assumed (s)he is either pushing or holding.


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