Referee's job

[Dan_ref]

OK Mark, I'll bite. What do you mean by this?

-Dan

========Mark Padgett wrote:=====================
And yes - our job is to make sure the better team wins! If you don't believe it, start a new thread and
I'll be glad to explain it. This is a seminar I give at clinics.

[mick]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
OK Mark, I'll bite. What do you mean by this?

-Dan

========Mark Padgett wrote:=====================
And yes - our job is to make sure the better team wins! If you don't believe it, start a new thread and
I'll be glad to explain it. This is a seminar I give at clinics.

Dan,
I was hoping someone would. Welcome "A(nother) Board".
mick

[hoopsrefBC]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
OK Mark, I'll bite. What do you mean by this?

-Dan

========Mark Padgett wrote:=====================
And yes - our job is to make sure the better team wins! If you don't believe it, start a new thread and
I'll be glad to explain it. This is a seminar I give at clinics.

Now lets not start this, even thought i may agree to some extent, we don't ref professionally, and shouldn't have to worry about this stuff. I believe your talking about the same concept as "letting the best players determine the outcome of a game" corrtect?

[Edited by hoopsrefBC on Oct 2nd, 2000 at 04:14 PM]

[Mark Padgett]

Whenever someone is mentally unbalanced enough to ask me to speak at a clinic , I always ask the following multiple choice question: What is your job as a referee? Give me the best answer from the following: A) call the game consistantly according to the rules B) call the game equally for both sides C) call the game using the advantage/disadvantage theory or D) call the game so that the better team wins. Invariably, no one picks D, although that is the "correct" answer. Here's how I explain it to all the bewildered faces.

Despite what some people think, the purpose of the rules is not to level the playing field. Sport is a competition, and the players who have more skills and can adapt those skills to the game are supposed to be rewarded with victory. If you call the game consistantly according to the rules, if you call it equally for both sides and if you use the advantage/disadvantage theory, then the team that plays the best WILL win. That's your job - to make sure that happens, because the team that plays the best is SUPPOSED to win.

If you have a guard who is quick off the dribble, and you let a slower defender hold him "a little", you are penalizing the guard for being quick. Quick is supposed to beat slow. That's the reward. If you start feeling sorry for slower, smaller, less talented players and you compensate for that in your calls, then you - not the players - are determining the outcome of the game and THAT'S WRONG! (Same thing happens if you change the way you call at the end of a game - another pet peeve of mine) The team that hustles more, shoots better, defends better, rebounds better and adapts their coach's scheme better deserves to win, and if you do your job, they will, because in an evenly called game, those attributes will prevail.

That's what I mean by saying that your job is to see to it that the team that plays the best - wins.

[PAULK1]

I have no argument with that philosophy.

Now to have some fun and tie this into the thread that brought it up.

Since the team that wasn't suppose to inbound got to the ball to "quickly" and the referee was to "slow" to recognize the error that means there is no crrection because "quick is suppose to beat slow". Just kidding......

[hoopsrefBC]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Whenever someone is mentally unbalanced enough to ask me to speak at a clinic , I always ask the following multiple choice question: What is your job as a referee? Give me the best answer from the following: A) call the game consistantly according to the rules B) call the game equally for both sides C) call the game using the advantage/disadvantage theory or D) call the game so that the better team wins. Invariably, no one picks D, although that is the "correct" answer. Here's how I explain it to all the bewildered faces.

Despite what some people think, the purpose of the rules is not to level the playing field. Sport is a competition, and the players who have more skills and can adapt those skills to the game are supposed to be rewarded with victory. If you call the game consistantly according to the rules, if you call it equally for both sides and if you use the advantage/disadvantage theory, then the team that plays the best WILL win. That's your job - to make sure that happens, because the team that plays the best is SUPPOSED to win.

If you have a guard who is quick off the dribble, and you let a slower defender hold him "a little", you are penalizing the guard for being quick. Quick is supposed to beat slow. That's the reward. If you start feeling sorry for slower, smaller, less talented players and you compensate for that in your calls, then you - not the players - are determining the outcome of the game and THAT'S WRONG! (Same thing happens if you change the way you call at the end of a game - another pet peeve of mine) The team that hustles more, shoots better, defends better, rebounds better and adapts their coach's scheme better deserves to win, and if you do your job, they will, because in an evenly called game, those attributes will prevail.

That's what I mean by saying that your job is to see to it that the team that plays the best - wins.

Mark i agree with you...i was a little confused on your wording on your multiply chose 'd' "call the game so that the better team wins. This could mean to some people that you are pre judging the teams before you steped on the court. I thank you for clearing to up at the end of your thread when you say "because the team that plays the best is SUPPOSED to win.", i agree with that. My question to you is at what point of the game do you determine what team is playing better than the other? Especially in a tight game?

I reward good offensive and penalize bad offensive.
I reward good defensive and penalize bad defense.

ps. by the way, i would chose 'e' ALL OF THE ABOVE'
keep smiling
SH

[Mark Padgett]

When do you determine which team is better? That's easy. At the end of the game, you see which team has the most points.

Actually, that is the correct answer, since because you called the game properly, the team that played the best won.

[mick]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
When do you determine which team is better? That's easy. At the end of the game, you see which team has the most points.

Actually, that is the correct answer, since because you called the game properly, the team that played the best won.

Like I said, I love the way his mind "sorta" works.
mick

[Brian Watson]

Why do I have this overwhelming feeling that there is a "davism" buried in here somewhere?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Brian Watson
Why do I have this overwhelming feeling that there is a "davism" buried in here somewhere?

I started rec league last weekend and didn't have any games with Dave. But this weekend, I have two scheduled with him. I'll keep you Dave fans posted. I am dripping with anticipation, since he really only "lets loose" during rec season. During regular season, he's no fun at all.

[Dan_ref]

Dave! Dave! Dave!

[hoopsrefBC]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

I started rec league last weekend and didn't have any games with Dave. But this weekend, I have two scheduled with him. I'll keep you Dave fans posted. I am dripping with anticipation, since he really only "lets loose" during rec season. During regular season, he's no fun at all.

Hey Mark, tell you what...ref the game using FIBA mechanics and see how he reacts. Did you work any of games in the Over 35 world championships held a couple of years back?

[Mark Padgett]

No way will Dave work what he calls "FEEBLE" rules. They are too Euro for him. In fact, he says the trapezoidal lane makes him dizzy. Dave hates anything "Euro". He once took a Yugo for a test drive. It was doing real well - until he ran over some gum. He also can't understand why the French need so many different kinds of cheese.

As to the over 35 games, no I did not work any but I did watch some games at the Nike World Masters here in Oregon a few years ago. A fellow ref named Jeff played in the games. Afterwards, he told me another post player elbowed him so hard, he cracked two ribs. He said the other guy looked familiar, but he couldn't place him. I looked the other guy up and it was former NBA player Greg Kite. OUCH!

[hoopsrefBC]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
No way will Dave work what he calls "FEEBLE" rules. They are too Euro for him. In fact, he says the trapezoidal lane makes him dizzy. Dave hates anything "Euro". He once took a Yugo for a test drive. It was doing real well - until he ran over some gum. He also can't understand why the French need so many different kinds of cheese.

As to the over 35 games, no I did not work any but I did watch some games at the Nike World Masters here in Oregon a few years ago. A fellow ref named Jeff played in the games. Afterwards, he told me another post player elbowed him so hard, he cracked two ribs. He said the other guy looked familiar, but he couldn't place him. I looked the other guy up and it was former NBA player Greg Kite. OUCH!

WELCOME TO FIBA ! no blood no foul, broken ribs, little tape will fix that. Every wonder why in Australia the two sports that have a higher participation rate then basketball are Aussie Rules Football and Rugby...

The tournament i was thinking about was the Nike Worlds Masters. Thanks for reminding me. Had a few friends work it, two from wash.state and one from British Columbia.

[rockyroad]

I worked that Nike Master's Stuff - some in Portland and some in Vancouver, WA...it was a blast...called a T on a guy from Latvia even though I couldn't understand a word he was yelling at me - it obviously wasn't very complimentary...