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-   -   Indiana/Michigan block/charge (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/93848-indiana-michigan-block-charge.html)

BLydic Mon Feb 04, 2013 09:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 876765)
If only there was a travel there.

Left foot looked like it was lifted prior to the dribble ... by the book, a travel.

Rich Mon Feb 04, 2013 09:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLydic (Post 876768)
Left foot looked like it was lifted prior to the dribble ... by the book, a travel.

I really think the book needs to be changed.

This would never be called a travel at this level and it doesn't serve the game well to even think of it as so.

(If you can't tell, I'm never overly impressed with those who can find nitpicky travels in videos like this.)

Raymond Mon Feb 04, 2013 09:54am

BTW, on the last PC, the way Mike Eades signalled is how I do most of my PC fouls.

JeroenB Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:06am

10:13: No call
9:14: Easy PC
7:06: Hard to see, may be a PC, but I think I'd pass, no call.

JetMetFan Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 876686)
I'm trying to gather the video now. Is the second half blocking foul among the three mentioned in the OP?

Does anyone have a time on the 2nd half call that Nevadaref, twocents and Jay R were talking about?

Jay R Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:57am

The one that I referenced was in the first half, probably 12:00 to 14:00 minute mark. Indiana player drove from C's area and Michigan defender tried to draw charge. The C called a block and the basket was good. The L also had a whistle and looked like he wanted to call a charge but he held his signal.

The 2nd half play was probably around the 5 minute mark. It happened right in front of Michigan's bench. The Indiana defender tried to draw a charge but did not have great position, however the Michigan player also pushed off around the same time.

just another ref Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 876769)

This would never be called a travel at this level and it doesn't serve the game well to even think of it as so.

What does this even mean? Especially the second part. He either moved the foot early or he didn't. You're almost quoting Bob Knight now.

"If they're not gonna call it, they should change the rule.

Rich Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 876806)
What does this even mean? Especially the second part. He either moved the foot early or he didn't. You're almost quoting Bob Knight now.

"If they're not gonna call it, they should change the rule.

If we're going to stop the game 15 times to "catch" a minuscule infraction of the rule that we can't even agree about watching video after the fact, IMO it doesn't serve the game well to even look for it.

YMMV, but I wouldn't even be seeing this travel (if it indeed exists) -- it would simply never enter my mind.

Camron Rust Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 876811)
If we're going to stop the game 15 times to "catch" a minuscule infraction of the rule that we can't even agree about watching video after the fact, IMO it doesn't serve the game well to even look for it.

YMMV, but I wouldn't even be seeing this travel (if it indeed exists) -- it would simply never enter my mind.

I didn't think it was that controversial. I might not see it live but once he said it was a travel, I watched it one more time and decided he was right. It wasn't really that close either.

If we're not to stop the game for infractions of the rule, why are they rules?

APG Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 876769)
I really think the book needs to be changed.

This would never be called a travel at this level and it doesn't serve the game well to even think of it as so.

(If you can't tell, I'm never overly impressed with those who can find nitpicky travels in videos like this.)

+1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 876811)
If we're going to stop the game 15 times to "catch" a minuscule infraction of the rule that we can't even agree about watching video after the fact, IMO it doesn't serve the game well to even look for it.

YMMV, but I wouldn't even be seeing this travel (if it indeed exists) -- it would simply never enter my mind.

Got to agree here also.

just another ref Mon Feb 04, 2013 01:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 876811)
If we're going to stop the game 15 times to "catch" a minuscule infraction of the rule that we can't even agree about watching video after the fact, IMO it doesn't serve the game well to even look for it.

YMMV, but I wouldn't even be seeing this travel (if it indeed exists) -- it would simply never enter my mind.

So when you say this travel, still not sure what you mean. What it he had lifted the pivot 6" off the floor before the dribble, rather than 1/2" ?
Where do you draw the line?

Is traveling headed in the direction of 3 seconds?

ODog Mon Feb 04, 2013 01:21pm

Sorry guys, I wasn't HOPING to find a travel and therefore watched the video 5 times to do so.

It's the classic "drop-step travel." The first time I watched the play, "travel" was the only thing that entered my mind. The slo-mo just made it that much more obvious.

You can debate whether it should/would be called. But you can't debate it's a travel. As CRust said, it's not even close, either. Pretending it is just to back up your personal philosophy on rules you choose to overlook (and we all have some, me included) is lame.

JRutledge Mon Feb 04, 2013 02:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 876769)
(If you can't tell, I'm never overly impressed with those who can find nitpicky travels in videos like this.)

Preach.

Peace

Brad Mon Feb 04, 2013 02:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLydic (Post 876768)
Left foot looked like it was lifted prior to the dribble ... by the book, a travel.

Even by the book it is super nit-picky. If you call this a travel at the men's D1 level you are going to get weird looks from both of your partners and both coaches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 876820)
So when you say this travel, still not sure what you mean. What it he had lifted the pivot 6" off the floor before the dribble, rather than 1/2" ?
Where do you draw the line?

The "travel" had zero impact on the play. He's putting the ball on the floor and maybe lifted his pivot foot a half second before releasing the ball. Super, super nit-picky. Don't be a detective!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODog (Post 876821)
It's the classic "drop-step travel."

No it's not ... it's not even a drop-step!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODog (Post 876821)
You can debate whether it should/would be called. But you can't debate it's a travel. As CRust said, it's not even close, either. Pretending it is just to back up your personal philosophy on rules you choose to overlook (and we all have some, me included) is lame.

I think that's exactly what you are debating.

This "travel" had zero impact on the play. ZERO. It is barely noticeable. If you blow your whistle on this play at this level (really, any level, but especially men's D1), everyone is going to pause and wonder what the hell you called —*because no one will know.

It's super nit-picky ... it's like finding 3-seconds on the post player who has half a foot on the lane line, but the ball is nowhere near him. "By the book"? Yes. Something you should call? No.

In this game if you call this a travel you are going to be the only one calling it ... and you won't be around to call it very long.

The player-control foul is the obvious, super obvious correct call on this play.

MD Longhorn Mon Feb 04, 2013 02:41pm

Seems to me a bunch here are stuck officiating BY the book, instead of officiating WITH the book.


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