Player control signal?
 

When I call a player control foul, what should I do with the other hand? It feels weird to just let it dangle, and it is hard to be emphatic about placing your signalling hand and arm behind your head. It has no oomph. I have resorting to doing a pseudo team control-punch with the other hand. Is this wrong? Is there a better alternative?

I know this is not by the book, but everywhere I have been the custom (among officials, not hardline evaluators) is just to do the punch for an offensive foul at the time of calling, regardless of type.

Then when reporting, just the hand behind head and verbalizing player-control if that is what the particular call was.

I don't even use the player control signal...at the spot nor at the table. It might be one of the weakest officiating signals in all of sport. I use the team control punch.

If one hand is behind my head the other one is pointing the direction we will now be going.

+1

That is what I do.

Peace

I absolutely agree and wish I could just go with this always. I have had evaluators rip me, repeatedly, because I "do not have a sufficient understanding of basic mechanics" because I don't do a by-the-book PC call. :mad:

Stupid...

I'm guessing they'd get on you for using fists on the hips for a block instead of hands on the hip (which is another weak signal)...but when in Rome.

I had a PC last night. Just came out with the punch. When I reported, used the PC signal. I rarely go behind the head on the initial play anymore.

Oh yes, I have been dinged for that one too... and yet when the same person officiates guess what I see?

Agreed. Initial call, use the fist. At the table I go with the hands.

I put one hand behind my head and use the other to point to a hot mom in the bleachers. My partners really appreciate it. :)

Don't know your experience level but if you are relatively new or trying to move up to the the observor's level one of the things they want to know is if you do know all the proper mechanics.

Before you can vary from the book you have to prove that you know the book. ;)

i put the other hand on my hip and then shake back and forth a bit. ;)

this also works for a self-called blarge.

Didn't I see you on "America's Got Talent"? :D

I'm 4 years in so not brand new, but no respect yet either I suppose. I've shown I know the book from exams though too.

I just punch with my right hand and kind of pull my left hand into my chest as I punch. It's kind of hard to describe. For those of you that work baseball, it's kind of a reverse chainsaw on a called strike three mechanic.

I used to go behind my head, but like other said, it feels very odd and looks weak. I see very few guys that look good going behind their head.

Bob, I almost had one of those last night. It was a 50 50 play, and I'm thinking "Is defender legal? Yes, wait oops, he moved to a new spot while A1 was in air." Had hand behind head and then signaled block. What a mess. :o

This is definitely a "Rome" thing. I don't remember the last time I put my hand behind my head on a court, or didn't use my fists on a block charge. The other aspect of "Rome" in this discussion is this (and it did not originate with me): mechanics are what we do as a crew like rotate, signals are what we do as individuals when we have fouls, violations, etc.

Rules knowledge (check), mechanics (?), rules application (?), judgment (?).

I'm in my 11th season and still work on improving my mechanics. I am very strong with my table presentation but seeing myself on video a lot this season I see I still need a lot of improvement with my mechanics/posture/body movement after I blow my whistle and before I move to report my fouls.

Also, a lot of what observers tell you is to see if you can listen and adjust. Next time that observer sees you he'll notice whether or not you changed your mechanics accordingly. It also prepares you for when you start working for mulitple supervisors at the HS level and above.

That's why you got to practice in the mirror. I try to look like I am punching the air, and give the air a big wallop. The further apart your legs are the better, and if you run forward a few steps before punching, even better. After I master this move, I will move on to the Joey Crawford Block Special.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UdMMYz0fKpI?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The running start, the hop(s), the look-back to check for technical-worthy behavior....this video screams professionalism.

For us "mechanics" are signals and reporting (Think anything contained in or involved with the NFHS signals sheet)

I agree, the day I don't feel I can continue to improve is the day I need to quit, its just annoying when I hit your other 3 points relatively well so they decide to go after a mechanic not by the book instead of saying I had a good quarter/half/night that specific time or whatever else.

Apparently the "block" was so egregious is counted as 5 fouls. That or he's practicing his high stepping to be a drum major. Awesome video.

Well played sir, well played... although I am not the one who picks the names, I just get to live with them

I know man, just messing with you. If I say mechanics, some people around here will say, "You mean signals?". That extends to officials from California. I didn't make it up, I just deal with this version of Rome.

Our Rome
 

Seems redundant, but I and others on our most frequent crews first do the hand behind the head then give the team control punch for which way it's going.
What I eschew is the weak, wimpy index finger at the end of a slightly bent elbow just pointing "the other way." :o

No no, I knew you were. Trust me I'm not one of the oversensitive ones.

Definitely the worst of all!

Where's the word 'effete' when you need it? ;)

game management (?), experience (?), court presence (?), ...just to add a few more.

I am sure there are many more we could add to create a well rounded official...

...I know Mark, BEER (?) is one of them...;)

Good Description...that's the one I use.

Then when reporting foul, use "hand behind head" signal while verbalizing Player Control.

No - MEDS (!) :cool:

Especially, if you happen to be in that little corner of...

Figure 34 in the book. Plus the direction, as others have noted.

Then you won't like seeing Joey Crawford calling offensive fouls...

And I'll still contend that this signal looks better then the silly looking hand behind the head...which I think looks even worse coupled with a point or punch with the other hand.

Fist up, then behind head, then punch "team-control" style in other direction...all with the same hand

As the team control punch has been officially stricken from the approved signal chart here in Ohio (yes even for team control fouls), all I give is the hand behind the head followed by a direction with the same hand.

We aren't allowed the TC punch because it's "too confusing to coaches."

That's the "by the book" mechanic. I probably have seen zero officials use it here, including myself. As was said before, it just looks weak to me.

I'll use the hand behind the head when reporting, but not at the spot. At the spot, it's normally a punch out with the right arm followed by a step and a punch with the left arm. Hard to describe, really.

On the spot I do behind-the-head or just point with loud "offensive" accompanying it.

I want to change to a fist up with one hand and a punch with the other hand as I bring my fist down but I keep forgetting once I'm in the heat of action. I'll continue to go behind my head with when reporting to the table.

On the spot, I don't think I have ever gone behind the head except maybe when I was doing intramural ball in college.

The main guy who trained me after college always said the punch looked much stronger and that's what I have typically done.

Depending on what type of play it is I also increasingly find myself going with a strong point (not exactly sure what the reference to the wimpy point with slightly pint elbow is) and saying "offense."

At the table I go behind the head then point with the same hand.

On a run of the mill offensive foul, I've been known to do that as well

Yup.

A bang bang play or a push off usually gets a punch.

Defender there all day will usually get a point the other way.

Depending on what level you call, you would want to be careful with the point... In NCAAW, there is a specific signal involving a point that is not a TC foul.

Thanks. What signal is that?

I primarily do HS and JUCO (NCAAM mechanics) and deciding whether to seriously pursue NCAAM or W.

Page 135 of the NCAA Rules:

http://i48.tinypic.com/2i7xuft.png

I use that one too for loose ball fouls going the other way.

For PC fouls its with the same hand after the fist.

Emphatic signals are frowned upon here in this northeast corner of Rome. Tweet & fist up, pause, color and number, hand behind head.

The punch came into the NFHS signal chart either in 2005 or 2006. In the summer of 2006 I was at a college camp and did a punch for an illegal screen. After the game our muscular observer asked me what the hell that was. My partners even chimed in that it was the new FED signal for TC control foul. Observer (remember college camp) said he didn't like it, he preferred just pointing the other way. So that has subconciously stuck with me ever since and I haven't been able to incorporate the punch into my mechanics.

I have abandoned the PC signal and have this year adopted the fists on the hips mechanic for a block. Both feel more natural to me though I suspect I'll get roasted at camp this year for it.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

The more I read about how some things are done in some of the the northeastern states, the more I'm glad I don't have to officiate in that region

Plus You Can't Get There From Anywhere ...
 

Please don't call Maine a northeastern state. Those guys are almost in a different time zone, and a different climate zone. Who ever heard of a coastal state where you can only go swimming in the ocean during two weeks in July?

You are certainly not alone in that assessment, but you just said it out loud.

Peace

Give and take. On the up side, and although I can't quantify this, I don't see any as many unsportsmanlike issues as there appears to be elsewhere.

Buy a map, Nutmeg. I grew up on those chilly waters. You flatlanders just don't have what it takes to handle our Gulf (which makes awesome lobsters). They make heated pools, y'know.

It is a downeastern state.

You've never been to the west coast have you? Even down to central California, you will not find many beach goers in the water without a wetsuit at any time of the year but I'm pretty certain Washington, Oregon, and California are considered coastal.

I hate the PC mechanic. It is weak. Doesn't allow you to properly sell the call. Why NFHS and NCAA still legislate it is beyond me.

When I do a HS game I try to use the behind the head signal. The problem in Ontario lies with the fact we do almost as many FIBA games as we do Federation.

Actually there's nothing stupid about it. A player control foul and a team control foul are NOT the same thing.

They essentially are now.

With the exception of the airborne shooter exception for the PC foul (which could just as easily be added to the TC rule) every player control foul, without the player control foul rule, would be a team control foul. The penalties are identical. The only thing the PC foul tells you is who the foul is on, specifically, but that is what numbers are for.

So, there is no longer any reason for them to be different.

Exactly. There is a difference, until such time as the rule is changed.

Bottom line, if you're being dinged on an eval for something over and over, it might be a good idea to conform. They obviously want it called that way until the rule is changed.

Well then they need to change the signals, otherwise there is a difference in the rule and what we are calling.

Peace

lined out punch signal
 

Mixed crew two have 5-6 years NF and one 10+ yrs HS, 3yrs. college. College R calls PC using TC signal from T, L lined out by T's back pointing new direction, T goes table and same lined out TC signal while L about to go wrong way while holding the ball looking to C for help. This is a perfect example of why using proper signals at HS level and below necessary. If and when you get the call up than TC be ok. College officials must use NF signals if doing HS. My opinion and pregame preference for up and coming or down and going.


May be new to quorum but not new to officiating.

Could somebody please translate this into English?

My thoughts exactly after saying, "what?" out loud.

All I got out of this is someone called a player control foul using the punch signal. Who in the hell is getting confused by the team control signal? How would the new trail get confused and about to have the teams go the wrong way? There's nothing that signaling the team control punch will change rather than using the hand behind the head.

Nightmare On Oregon Street ...
 

Thank God. Now I don't have to ever imagine Mark Padgett wearing a Speedo.

I think he's saying the old L was unable to see the signal because the calling official turned his back to the old L each time it was given.

Yep, typing from a Galaxy III leaves me to abbreviate too much. The old Lead couldn't see the punch signal. But if the NFHS signal was properly used the old Lead would be able to see the proper signal. Poor communication by calling official to insure old Lead who had the throw in spot knew what was called. When at home I can type it all out. Refs get left out of calling any state playoffs if they do not use the NFHS mechanics; its a must do issue with the DOE Sports Director here. this includes two hands being used to identify player who committed the foul. Think I'll start a new lead for this.

Still makes no sense...I doubt if the official used a player control signal that they wouldn't have missed it.

This is why I also verbalize color and location of the throw in to my partner before I report.

Use either swiping or voice to text. Both work very well and much better the typing.

I use SwiftKey 3 on my Galaxy S III. No difference in my posts from the phone and my posts on a computer.

And I don't buy it. That first post was illegible.

IMO, the call signal should have little to do, theoretically, with the non-callers (and players) knowing what's happening after the call. As Adam offered, it's all about post-call communication by the calling official. And that's a pet peeve if mine at the varsity level or above. Makes it seem like the caller is out of their depth and is too easily caught up in the moment to clearly communicate what's going on after they make a call.

So you think it is out of line to give information to a partner to get the call ultimately right? Out of bounds plays? Basket going in plays? Dead ball situations?

Again I only care about getting calls correct and if someone can give me informaiton that helps us get the call right, I am all for it. Who cares what coaches and fans think happened in that conversation?

Peace

Are you in the wrong thread?

Um... Maybe I misunderstood what I was reading earlier in the thread, but to answer your questions:
1) Not at all
2) Sure
3) Absolutely
4) Absolutely
5) No official that's any good