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-   -   block charge double foul? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/93799-block-charge-double-foul.html)

fortmoney Wed Jan 30, 2013 01:50pm

block charge double foul?
 
I would appreciate some insight from you experienced guys.

Girls 8th grade, both teams are pretty sloppy. Team B pressed aggressively the whole first half and, for the most part, played good, legal defense. I.e. playing close but with hands up. Team A is very untalented except for the tallest girl on the court, A1, who does most of the dribbling and shooting. A1 has broken the press and is driving down my sideline, I'm the T. I get streamlined as B1 slides over to stop the ball. In my opinion, from what I could see, B1 did not have LGP but A1 used her arm to extend and gain separation, causing B1 to fall to the ground. Since I did not see enough contact to be sure, I tried motion for B1 to get up and play on, but of course she started to tear up and A1 stopped and looked at me. I blew my whistle to stop the clock, and everyone in the gym is incredulous, both coaches and fans. I had B1 sub out of the game and we continued play with no foul assessed.

What could/should be done in this situation? Both if I had a foul as soon as it occurred, or if I stopped the game for injury, like I actually did. What could I have done better, besides get the angle between the players? I realize that is the number one mistake I made and something I've really worked hard on this season

fortmoney Wed Jan 30, 2013 01:52pm

Btw, some of that information was given to me by my partner at halftime, as I could not see what happened between A1 and B1

Sox_Nation Wed Jan 30, 2013 01:54pm

I probably would have had a foul on one or the other..hard to say without being there personally. From the explanation I would probably have called a block on B1. I say that because I am assuming (not seeing in person) that A1 used her arm for protection from the contact caused by B1 and not as an advantage...but again I didn't see it.

fortmoney Wed Jan 30, 2013 01:59pm

Yeah, I realize it's tough to know without seeing it. Thinking back, I guess it's one of those that I should have just gone with what I saw first, which would have been contract by B1 without LGP

Adam Wed Jan 30, 2013 02:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fortmoney (Post 875888)
Yeah, I realize it's tough to know without seeing it. Thinking back, I guess it's one of those that I should have just gone with what I saw first, which would have been contract by B1 without LGP

From your description, I've probably got a PC foul. Not having LGP doesn't mean A1 gets to push B1 out of the way.

stir22 Wed Jan 30, 2013 03:14pm

if they bring an arm up or lower their shoulder, i've got PC.

Smitty Wed Jan 30, 2013 03:21pm

Somebody had to have something. If your partner had so much information about what happened, why didn't he call something?

BillyMac Wed Jan 30, 2013 06:02pm

Danger, Danger ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stir22 (Post 875926)
Lower their shoulder.

Warning Will Robinson.

fortmoney Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 875931)
Somebody had to have something. If your partner had so much information about what happened, why didn't he call something?

Here was the sequence of events: contact, girl goes down, I motion to play on, pause, whistle. Partner comes over as I'm checking to see if the girl is alright and asks if we should have a double foul, and I figured it was too late then.

APG Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stir22 (Post 875926)
if they bring an arm up or lower their shoulder, i've got PC.

How many degrees lower does one shoulder have to be then the other?

If you're going to call a charge, call it because a player goes to and through a legal defender...there's nothing illegal in of itself because a player lowers his shoulder.

Camron Rust Thu Jan 31, 2013 02:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by APG (Post 876004)
How many degrees lower does one shoulder have to be then the other?

If you're going to call a charge, call it because a player goes to and through a legal defender...there's nothing illegal in of itself because a player lowers his shoulder.

+1.

And if the defender is moving forward and the offense goes through them, shoulder lowered or not, it is still a block. The responsibility to be in a legal position is on the defender unless the offense is extending their arm out to push off.


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