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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:29am
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Let it go?!

Last night I had a J. V. Doubleheader. 4 and 5 which was to be followed by girls and boys varsity. My partner and I discussed during pregame that we would get the obvious and try to keep the flow going so we could be out of the way so as not to delay the start of varsity games. Sure enough less than.a minute left in girls game score visitors 22 home 21 vistors inbound ball on endline and head toward frontcourt with man pressure from home team because they need ball back. The guard dribbles up floor pushes once with inside forearm to make space pulls arm back then as pressure resumes extends forearm again to push defense for almost 10 feet up the floor. I call player control with about 11 seconds left in game. Visiting coach loses his mind which is fine because he couldn't see what i saw. Home team gets the ball gets off a shot with 3. 6 seconds remaining and get fouled. Player misses 1st shot. Player misses 2nd shot but their is a violation visitor. Player hits the free throw. Overtime. Home team wins by 4. Between game partner ask me what I called. I had clearly indicated push player control on visitor. He couldn't see what I saw because was lead in frontcourt. He said I probably should have let the call go. IMO no. I told him what I saw and why I called it. No more discussion. Finisn boys. Go home. Any thoughts ?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:32am
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What did you see? You saw a foul and called it. Good job, end of discussion.
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Old Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:37am
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My thoughts:

1. The game is what the game is. I hope you didn't mean it this way, but keeping a flow and worrying about the start of the next game are not important to the kids playing the current game. Many jokes are made about going into overtime and/or games that take a long time. However, we just call what needs to be called and the 10 players on the court dictate flow for the most part.
2. From your description, you made the correct call. There is no requirement for the coach or your partner to see the foul for you to call it.
3. Did your partner say more than you should have let the call go? Is he more experienced to you and said this in a mentoring manner or was he just concerned with getting out of there?
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Old Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:37am
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I don't see a problem, call what you see. Exactly what was your parner looking at?
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rawhi1 View Post
My partner and I discussed during pregame that we would get the obvious and try to keep the flow going so we could be out of the way so as not to delay the start of varsity games.
My only comment - you are there to call the game you are there to call. Don't call a game differently because of a fear of running long. Your partner's assertion that you should have let a foul go (presumably so you didn't end up with overtime) smacks of this.

Call YOUR game.
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Old Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:49am
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Impossible to say if the call was a quality call or not as we would have to be there or see a clip of the play.

Now if your partner is saying don't call a foul due to it being the end of the game...well that's a different story. If the foul is there, you gotta get it.

Also, I'm not concerned about the start time of the next game...even if I'm working it. You're assigned to work x amount of games...if properly calling a game takes 1 hour and 45 minutes...then it is what it is.
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Old Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:50am
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My partner has about 9 vs my 5 and just starting varsity this year. Good guy I've work with before. Didn't mind his question. I believe he was trying to give me some useful point but for the wrong reason. Get in and get out. And I had a better reason to do that because I had a middle school game the night that was one of my most difficulf games of the year. Playing for playoff spot rowdy fans very vocal coaches. But I feel that everbodys game is important to them. Besides we don't get paid to make game go fast. Were there to make it fair.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rawhi1 View Post
My partner and I discussed during pregame that we would get the obvious and try to keep the flow going so we could be out of the way so as not to delay the start of varsity games.

The guard dribbles up floor pushes once with inside forearm to make space pulls arm back then as pressure resumes extends forearm again to push defense for almost 10 feet up the floor.
My suggestion would be to NEVER have this as part of your pre-game. As Tomegun mentioned we often joke about no overtime and delaying the start of a varsity game but that should never have an impact on how you actually call the game.

When I observe JV officials I often feel they should have more no-calls. But it has nothing to do with the start of the next game and everything to do with learning advantage/disadvantage, how to have a patient whistle, distinguishing between marginal and illegal contact, etc.

As for your call, it's impossible to say if you should have let something go without seeing the play. If you think it was a foul then call it and go to the table strong. The only question I have based on your description is when you say "push defense for almost 10 feet" I have a somewhat difficult time picturing this. If the offensive player extended their arm and created space by displacing the defense, that should be called the moment it happens IMO.

We all second guess some of our calls from time to time. But you should only be thinking about the dynamics of the call itself, not whether or not it delays the start of another game or anything along those lines.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun View Post
my thoughts:

1. The game is what the game is. I hope you didn't mean it this way, but keeping a flow and worrying about the start of the next game are not important to the kids playing the current game. Many jokes are made about going into overtime and/or games that take a long time. However, we just call what needs to be called and the 10 players on the court dictate flow for the most part.
2. From your description, you made the correct call. There is no requirement for the coach or your partner to see the foul for you to call it.
3. Did your partner say more than you should have let the call go? Is he more experienced to you and said this in a mentoring manner or was he just concerned with getting out of there?
+1000
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:05am
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10 feet

The dribbler had their. Inside forearm extended dribbling up the floor headed toward the sideline near the scorers table in a small gym with bleachers on opposite side of gym. Whe dribbled was about to run oUt of space she used the forearm to push the player to try and continue down the sideline.
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Old Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rawhi1 View Post
The dribbler had their. Inside forearm extended dribbling up the floor headed toward the sideline near the scorers table in a small gym with bleachers on opposite side of gym. Whe dribbled was about to run oUt of space she used the forearm to push the player to try and continue down the sideline.
If the player is using the arm to create space, call the foul. Not sure what the real dilemma is here. Would you have called this foul in the middle of the second quarter?

Your partner didn't see anything (probably wasn't looking or shouldn't have been) and yet has an opinion? Sounds like he needs a huge glass of shut the **** up.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:52pm
AremRed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rawhi1 View Post
I call player control with about 11 seconds left in game.
....
Home team gets the ball gets off a shot with 3. 6 seconds remaining and get fouled.
I presume you had to make both calls?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref View Post
I don't see a problem, call what you see. Exactly what was your parner looking at?
Hopefully he was looking at his primary.
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