4 on the floor
 

I asked about having 6 players on the floor after a TO, how about if you have 4 instead, would you say to the coach, "you've only got 4"?

If a player returns to the floor late it's a "T" 10-2-5f.

First, there isn't a 10-2-5f. Rule 10-2 only has two articles, unless something was left out of the online rule book.

Second, there's a case book play for this:

Part of the logic is A5 is still considered a player because he/she was never removed for a substitute. If you feel A5 was sitting out trying to hide that's something different.

To your first question: Absolutely...this game is intended to be played 5-on-5 when possible (and before Billy comes in with a what-if, this is assuming no special circumstances)

The ruling is different following a TO. If A5 comes running back on during play, it's a TF for all five not returning at the same time. The case play you cite is for a situation not involving a timeout.

Agree. The applicable provision is 10-1-9, which requires that "all players return to the court at approximately the same time following a time-out or intermission."

To the OP: don't resume play without exactly 5 for each team. I have never called this T.

The case play is 10.1.9. In the case play, the team gets a distinct advantage by not having everyone return to the floor at the same time after the time-out. But notice that the case play doesn't say the technical is given because of the added advantage. It's strictly because they didn't bring 5 on the court after the time-out, whether there's an advantage or not.

The rule is 10-1-9. I used a 2011-12 online rule book by mistake.

Sorry. I have never called this and I have never called having 6 players on the floor.

We actually had it happen Saturday night. During a FT, sub comes in, sub goes out, but is told he is not the one coming out, we give the ball to FT shooter, he shoots and I hear the coach say "Jimmy, get off the court" I turn to see him coming off. I count and realize that we had 6 players. I go to lead official and say " B had 6 players, are we going to call a "T"?" Partner says, no the clock never started. I know that the ball was live, but I don't want to make a big deal out of it, it's a 10 point game with under 2 mins to go. Shooting coach didn't make a deal of it. We moved on.

This is where I like the NBA rule better...it's only becomes a technical foul when the ball is released on a free throw that will remain in play afterward.

Me..."Coach, you've only got 4"
Coach..."Thank you"

+1. This has been my experience as well. Coach is usually grateful for the reminder.

Had a situation a few weeks ago. Forget the exact circumstances, but I beckoned substitutes B10 and B11. B1 heads to the bench, but I've still got 6 players and I don't let the ball become live. Finally, B2 realizes he's been replaced and he heads to the bench. 5-on-5, ball becomes live. As A1 is bringing the ball up the floor, B's head coach, still thinking he has 6 in the game, reaches onto the floor, grabs B3 by the jersey, and yanks him off the court. So we now have 4-on-5. About 3 seconds later, B's HC realizes his mistake, and B3 sprints back onto the court.

A's fans and coaches are generally losing their mind, demanding a technical foul, "how could we not see that," etc., etc. In accordance with the 10.3.2 case play, we didn't call anything because B3's return was not deceitful, nor did B gain any advantage from it. Honestly, I think I'm the only one that saw what happened; when I brought it up at our meeting the following week, my partners didn't remember that had happened, and several others were saying we should have whacked B's head coach for grabbing his player and pulling him off the floor. (Haven't found any rule support for that idea.)

Thoughts?

Where are you Billy Mac ???????
 

BM -

C'mon c'mon....I am waiting for your "what if" scenario that you are always so good at providing????????

We don't have a case play that talks about this specifically, but I'd be tempted to apply that ruling at any level; because if we're shooting free throws with no rebounding action, then the team doesn't seem to have 6 players "participating" in the game.

Well the NBA rule specifies that it isn't a technical foul (for >5 players on the floor or less than 5 on the court) until the ball becomes alive (ball is released on a free throw that will remain in play, throw-in is released, or jump ball is legally touched)...if it's caught before then, fix it and move on.

Now in a NFHS game, I could see passing on this if it's during a free throw(s) that will not remain in play and just correcting the issue.

Some People Have To Work for A Living ...
 

I've had fans tell me not to quit my day job. Good advice.