HC location at Start of game.
 

I have heard about coaches having to be standing at the start of the game to be able to use the box, but that is not what the casebook says. In 10.5.1 Sit C, it states, "The coach must begin the game in a position within the box if he/she wishes to stand when permitted under the optional-box provisions." So where does this myth come from?

What if they use a timeout and then move back into the box while taking a seat?

Peace

What do you mean by this question Rut? I'm not getting the point of it.

OK, if a coach sits outside the coaching box at the very start of the game, then a timeout is called or quarter ends. Then after the timeout the coach sits in the box, are we not going to allow the coach to use the box because they were not sitting in the box at the very beginning of the game?

Peace

Based on the Caseplay, I would say no. He didn't start in the box.

I had not heard that myth before.

And, I agree with Rut that it's not likely to be enforced here. ymmv.

Yea, I can't say that on my checklist of things to look for at the start of the game - 5 players each team, shirts tucked in, partners ready, teams lined up properly, clock ready, table ready, etc - that where the head coach is sitting/standing is remotely on the list.

Unless it's egregious (down by the endline, standing on the court, etc), no way I'd pick up that end of the stick.

If I told a varsity coach he couldn't stand in the box because he wasn't sitting in a chair that was inside the box to start the game, I wouldn't be working varsity games anymore.

I've told a coach sitting on a chair outside the box *before the game* to make sure he was sitting in the box if he wants to use it -- of course, this was back when we had a 6' box. The U1 (or U) typically asks each coach if he's ready before we toss it up, so he would catch it then.

You must be speaking about local thoughts on the rule, though, and if it should be ignored in your area, feel free to ignore it.

Smitty works in Texas, where coaches have a lot of control.

While this is absolutely true, I was inferring I would get grief from my assigner. And I was exaggerating a bit to prove the point. I would get a talking to for sure but probably wouldn't lose my status. I certainly might get the opportunity to travel more to the far, far outskirts of the area from that point on, though. :)

It's nice not having to deal with a single assignor.

Oh and I would likely never get to go back to the school where I enforced the "sitting in the right spot" rule as the coach would surely scratch me from their games. The coaches can do that. They also can scratch you from a district game if they have never seen you before. Last year I was scratched for a Friday night game on a Friday morning because the coaches didn't know who I was. (I had only joined the association the year before). It would have been my biggest game of the season. I was not happy that night.

As would I. And if the talk-to didn't work, I'd find myself on lower and lower games til I was doing nothing but driving to distant small towns for middle school double headers.

Did you get paid for that game?

What a ridiculous system. God forbid you should ever call a technical foul on one of them.

I did not - I ended up assigned to a JV game somewhere as I recall. It was a bitter pill to swallow. Here in TX the coaches have so much power. It does make you feel like you need to coddle them a bit for just that reason. I have to admit, I have not called a single T on a varsity coach this season and I have at least 2 that I should have (a partner came in and got them). I am getting much better games this season and I would be lying if I didn't say it's in the back of my mind as I like these better games. This is an area I'm working on - I clearly haven't found my comfort zone yet.

Unless you're on the coach's chosen list, then I guess it's a great system. Probably one reason why the system stays the way it is.

I'll never understand why coaches are given such power -- it's not like they can go down to the grocery store and pull competent officials off a shelf.

I think one of the reasons they have the power is because they also have the power to determine which association gets to ref their district. The main reason I moved to this association is because it was able to convince 3 of the bigger districts near me to use it instead of the Dallas association. The coaches were the ones they had to convince.

Just proves the dysfunction of the state organization. When I lived in Tennessee, high schools could change groups, but once they did they had to stay with the new group for a non-trivial number of years -- no exceptions.

It made schools and leagues think long and hard about making such a move.

I work for multiple ones and I would not work for the one I did this procedure in their game. Then when the word got around a couple of others might not use me either. Assignors talk around here.

Peace

IMO - if you apply the letter versus the spirit of the rule, you are over officiating.

Glad I don't work in NE Illinois, then.

Well, coaches do seem to have much more to lose (financially and perhaps career wise) than we h.s. officials.

Most h.s. officials I know are not full time referees. They hold down full time jobs away from the court.

These coaches jobs are usually on the line year to year, contract to contract based on wins and losses. No, it's not the NBA where a firing happens at the whim of the owner (AD), but, it's similar in that regard.

Coaches are out there representing their school, drawing a salary and trying to win. We are out there having fun and picking up a $70 check for our ubiased efforts. :)

+1

All of this is precisely why coaches shouldn't have that much control over the officials.

Sounds like a whole lot of excuses as to why some states allow the inmates to run the asylum...

Do the AAU coaches act in the same manner. The most arrogant coach I've ever dealt with is the HC of a Texas AAU powerhouse.

Agreed.

We should be able to do our unbiased, equitable thing w/o worrying about possible negative future reprocussions from a disgruntled coach.

Oh, nonsense. Most of the coaches in my area are teachers. The two most successful coaches in the area are high school math teachers. This is HS basketball, and the games are supposed to be part of the educational process. And I know how much HS coaches make in my neck of the woods -- they make less money coaching than I do officiating.

I get that it's different elsewhere, but I'm not in Texas and we're not talking about six figure football coaches.

I have no delusion that my role is something special, but at the same time part of officials being unbiased arbiters is that the coaches shouldn't be able to curry favor by being able to wield a threat of scratching the officials. Or be able to avoid technical fouls by putting such things in the officials' minds.

Coaches around here get a nominal stipend. It is not their full-time job either.

Still, what do their coaching careers have to do with who officiates their games? Picking officials who will give them "homer" calls is their ticket to greatness? :confused:

Not really. The AAU tourney officials are assigned by a for profit organization. While coaches have little power, there is a low tolerance for treating coaches, players, and especially the paying fans with disrespect. But we are also getting paid significantly less for those games as well. Apples and oranges really.

Coaches around here are usually hired as a condition of their overall contact as a teacher. Usually schools do not have a non-teacher coaching any sport. So those coaches are accountable to the school district in many ways. Not that it always works, but if a coach does something that embarrasses the school it can and has affected their real job.

Peace

Missouri is really a mixed bag when it comes to coaches' influence. In this area, I don't think that football coaches have much, if any, say over who works their games. I know the state office assigns all district and playoff games, and the local assignor decides who works regular season games. The coaches still rate officials for regular season games.

Locally in basketball, there is a single assignor that assigns all games but coaches do have "preferred" lists of officials they want, although a lot of them complain that they never get those guys. They can also scratch people. The schools draft officials for the district tournaments, but the state assigns playoff games.

In baseball, it's like the Wild West. Coaches can hire their own officials in regular season games. Coaches/schools hire their own district tournament officials, and hire their own state playoff officials up until the state championships, where the state assigns them.

Well, Missouri (STL) is considered the "Gateway to the wild wild West". ;)

The schools hire the officials for every sport in the regular season here. The Athletic Directors or coaches call and schedule us.