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-   -   Players on the floor after 2Q, different in 3Q (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/93566-players-floor-after-2q-different-3q.html)

Rooster Thu Jan 17, 2013 04:47pm

Players on the floor after 2Q, different in 3Q
 
The varsity officials after my game had to deal with the home head coach who complained that the players at the end of the second quarter were different than the players who started the third quarter. According to HC, they did not check in before the 15 second warning buzzer starting the third quarter. He confirmed with the official scorer that no one had checked prior to that buzzer.

My question, How can we enforce 3-3-1a if no one keeps track of the players leaving after the second quarter? Are we expected to keep track?

JRutledge Thu Jan 17, 2013 04:50pm

To be perfectly honest with you, I do not care. As long as no one complains or makes a big deal out of who is in the game, I honestly do not monitor how teams communicate or not communicate to the scorer. This is such a non-issue and if someone made an issue out of this it would be a first in my career.

Peace

icallfouls Thu Jan 17, 2013 04:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 872735)
To be perfectly honest with you, I do not care. As long as no one complains or makes a big deal out of who is in the game, I honestly do not monitor how teams communicate or not communicate to the scorer. This is such a non-issue and if someone made an issue out of this it would be a first in my career.

Peace

I should have said I agree, but, The point was somebody made an issue out of it....the coach. Perhaps have the non-administering official go over and confirm starters for 3rd qtr as a bit of preventative officiating?

Adam Thu Jan 17, 2013 04:58pm

Coach is right, by rule. I've never bothered with it, though, and like Jeff, I've never even heard of a coach making an issue out of it.

Sounds like some coach just learned himself a new rule.

If it's brought to my attention, I'll enforce it by rule.

ref3808 Thu Jan 17, 2013 04:58pm

So how did our colleagues handle it?

JRutledge Thu Jan 17, 2013 05:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by icallfouls (Post 872736)
I should have said I agree, but, The point was somebody made an issue out of it....the coach. Perhaps have the non-administering official go over and confirm starters for 3rd qtr as a bit of preventative officiating?

If that is what you want to do, be my guest. I am just saying it is such a minor issue IMO unless someone wants to make a bigger deal out of it. Otherwise, we go with the players that come out on the floor. The only thing I would monitor is if some player tried to go to the table after the warning horn, then I might worry about that part, but otherwise it is not something I am going to make sure is followed to the letter. I doubt coaches even care who the 5 come out on the floor in the second half that closely. And if they did worry about that, they might bring it to our attention more.

Peace

icallfouls Thu Jan 17, 2013 05:17pm

Prove It
 
Would anyone think to say the onus is on the coach to provide information that confirms his assertion? Since was the home coach complaining, is this something they set up?

JRutledge Thu Jan 17, 2013 05:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by icallfouls (Post 872742)
Would anyone think to say the onus is on the coach to provide information that confirms his assertion? Since was the home coach complaining, is this something they set up?

That is why there is too much thinking on this issue. Play with who comes out there and let us move on. If I have to actually question the integrity of the coach on an issue like this every time, we have bigger problems.

Peace

icallfouls Thu Jan 17, 2013 05:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 872740)
If that is what you want to do, be my guest. I am just saying it is such a minor issue IMO unless someone wants to make a bigger deal out of it. Otherwise, we go with the players that come out on the floor. The only thing I would monitor is if some player tried to go to the table after the warning horn, then I might worry about that part, but otherwise it is not something I am going to make sure is followed to the letter. I doubt coaches even care who the 5 come out on the floor in the second half that closely. And if they did worry about that, they might bring it to our attention more.

Peace

I agree with you, but again, someone did make an issue of it and this particular coach DID care who was starting the 3rd qtr.

It sounds like this will happen more frequently at this coach's games.

Had this very situation happen in a college game about 5 years ago. Yes it is cheap, yes coach just happened to learn a rule he could try to exploit.

We proceeded according to rule.

JRutledge Thu Jan 17, 2013 05:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by icallfouls (Post 872745)
I agree with you, but again, someone did make an issue of it and this particular coach DID care who was starting the 3rd qtr.

It sounds like this will happen more frequently at this coach's games.

Had this very situation happen in a college game about 5 years ago. Yes it is cheap, yes coach just happened to learn a rule he could try to exploit.

We proceeded according to rule.

And you know what my answer would be to that coach? "OK." Then go across the court and put the ball in play. ;)

Peace

MD Longhorn Thu Jan 17, 2013 05:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by icallfouls (Post 872745)
We proceeded according to rule.

What do you mean by this. What exactly did you do next?

bob jenkins Thu Jan 17, 2013 07:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rooster (Post 872734)
The varsity officials after my game had to deal with the home head coach who complained that the players at the end of the second quarter were different than the players who started the third quarter. According to HC, they did not check in before the 15 second warning buzzer starting the third quarter. He confirmed with the official scorer that no one had checked prior to that buzzer.

My question, How can we enforce 3-3-1a if no one keeps track of the players leaving after the second quarter? Are we expected to keep track?

That's the scorer's job. If the scorer doesn't know, we have to play with who is out there. If the scorer does know, and the coach raises it, then play with who WAS out there.

JetMetFan Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:40am

And here's the case play...
 
Quote:

3.3.1 SITUATION D:

Intermission has concluded and play is about to resume in the third quarter when the scorer notifies the officials that no Team A substitutes reported prior to the warning horn.

RULING: The third quarter begins with the same five Team A players that concluded the second quarter. (3-3-1a Note)
"Coach, if you can remember the five players on the floor for the other team at the end of the first half more power to you because I sure don't..."

(whistle...ball in play)

Adam Fri Jan 18, 2013 01:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 872781)
"Coach, if you can remember the five players on the floor for the other team at the end of the first half more power to you because I sure don't..."

(whistle...ball in play)

OP states the scorebook backed up the coach. Good enough for me.

JetMetFan Fri Jan 18, 2013 02:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 872790)
OP states the scorebook backed up the coach. Good enough for me.

Oh, I get that part and I don't doubt that no one checked in to the scorer. I'll be more than happy to go along with them if either the HC or the scorer can remember who was out there at the end of the first half.


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