Shooting at wrong basket.
 

Following a timeout in a 5th grade girls game. Girls were quite skilled by the way. Yellow has possession of the ball under the basekt at the far end line. Black coachs yell for them to be in 3-2 defense. Black sets up their defense in the back court but I believe they thought they were in the front court. I at first thought they were pressing as they had been the whole game. As I hand the ball to yellow for the throw in, black's coach yells for them to get back into 3-2. They turn and head the other way. Yellow then passes the ball in and shoots at the wrong basket. While the flight is in the air everyone is yelling "wrong basket." The only two who don't relize this are the shooter and the teammate who passed the ball in. The first shot is missed and the teammate who passed the ball in gets the "rebound" and sticks it back in. These two head down the floor now. As they ran away I whistled the play dead and instucted them it was still yellow's ball and instucted the table to give 2 pts to black.

Question: Should have I blown the play dead or should I have began a 5 second count on the yellow team since it was still their ball? What if the play had been higher level? I know that doesn't really matter according to the rules but in the spirt of the game perhaps it does?

Why should you have blown it dead? You said the players were highly skilled.

I don't understand this question.

No reason to blow it dead until and unless they commit a backcourt violation. And yes, you should be counting... although I'm not sure why FIVE is the number you chose. 8 or 10 depending on which ruleset your 5th graders are using. Most likely 10.

I believe he means "5" second throw in count after the made points at wrong basket. Is that right?

Correct, once yellow made the basket they ran down the floor to join the other 8 players thinking they were going to be playing defense.

The reason I blown it dead was that there was no one there to inbounds the ball and with it being a younger level I wanted to help them out. I later questioned that since there is no rule backing this up.

Highly skilled is relative to their age level.

I don't know that I should have. I felt it was best to get everyone back on the same page as it was younger kids. Perhaps I should have just counted the five second violation.

I would do it as you did.

Ah. Now I see what you are saying. I'm not sure I'd be real quick on beginning the 2nd throw in count here. My first priority would be glancing over at the table to make sure they scored the basket for the correct team. (If not, you could stop things right there and fix it). If so - with 5th graders, at this point I'd be rather vocal. You said that SOME people were saying wrong way - hopefully a coach was one of them. Something like "Yellow throw in, right here" trying to get the coach's attention might be enough.

If not, yeah, I guess you have to start a new 5-second count.

The very first "wrong basket" play I ever had was a long time ago with a pretty good partner - the "wrong team" was even defending the play - and my on-the-ball partner had a 10-second count going that he may have rushed a bit - which expired before a shot was made. So luckily, all we had was a 10-second backcourt violation and not a basket.

At this age level I would have done the same.

Me too. They paid the price for dumb play, now fix it and go on with the game.

Anytime players successfully shoot it in the wrong basket, the play should be blown dead and the scorer instructed to count the points for the "team" who's basket the shot was scored in. They play will resume with an throwin anywhere along the endline for the team who didn't score.

I was just about to type something similar.

50 shades...
 

Also, do not give ball back to "yellow"...give it to "gold":)

Rabble Rouser ...
 

Pot stirrer.

I see where you are going with this. Why do some officials not want to say the colors that have more than one syllable? Is it just due to the ease of saying the word or is there some other reason? I come from a school which has purple as one of their colors so maybe that is why it doesn't bother me. Although we were called blue much more than purple.

At one time it was the standard. Now it's less so (but still common).

When In Rome ...
 

Easy answer: Because some of us our told to only use one syllable colors, and some of us do what we're told. Check your local listings.

One game we had orange vs Black. Partner absolutely refused to say orange, and kept calling them Red, no matter how much grief I gave him.

2 games later - same team, this time the opponent was red. I just looked at him and said, "OK, now what?"

Orange becomes Gold. :D

I'm a one syllable guy. Me being color-blind also contributes to my preferences.

Ugh! It was almost a Texas orange. If he had insisted on not using "orange" I hope we'd have landed on brown instead.

I told you I was color-blind. :D

I grew up wearing orange, but now it's red. Why? Because this isn't an area I care to stand out with.

You done good. It was 5th grade game. You prevented worse problems. Don't ask how I know.

Mregor

Are they smarter than a 5th grader?
 

It isn't only 5th graders who do this. I had this in a BV game this year and yes, the team scored on itself.

Purple is always blue.

No white?
 

Why two teams with dark colors?

We have one assignor who insists on accurate color descriptions -- claiming that referees should be smart enough to use two syllable words. i can tell you there are a couple "purple" teams who don't appreciate being called "blue" especially when "blue" is the primary color of the opposing team's road uniform.

That's one assignor who needs to get a life. And I couldn't possibly care what the teams want.

To me, orange is a one syllable word and I use it, but it will be a cold day in hell before I use the word purple on a basketball court.

I Always Pack A Color Wheel In My Bag ...
 

So he probably loves it when you say, "Gamboge. Five. Push".

I believe the main reason is vocal projection. One syllable words are easier to say loudly than multiple syllable words, particularly multiple syllable words with hard stops (like purple).

My schools colors were purple and gold, but you're never going to hear me say purple when I'm refereeing. I will say orange but I only use one syllable.

It always amuses me when the players come to me with concern on their faces that I apparently can't tell what color they're wearing.

Youth league - each team only has the one jersey.

(We had black vs dark blue - that was problematic.)

Excedrin Headache Number Fifteen ...
 

Blue with white numbers versus blue with black numbers.

Ugh.... Ok, I give! You win!!! :)

When I was in school our home uniforms were gold with white numbers. The visitors showed up with gold with white numbers. They were different styles at least. Our team ended up wearing white undershirts under their tops. Many turnovers in that game.

Which explains why the NFHS wants home teams wearing white jerseys.

It doesn't really. The NFHS could just require the home team to have two sets of contrasting jerseys and require them to wear whichever one contrasts with the jerseys worn by the visitors. Why the NFHS fixates on white as one of the contrasting colors is inexplicable (especially in soccer).

It's fixated on white so that if a school had a light colored as its road jersey it won't ever conflict with the home jersey, b/c the home team will always be wearing white.

Your suggestion above is extremely convoluted when there is really a very simple solution.


I'm not concerned about other sports, so my answer applies only to basketball.

It's really not convoluted. Every team has two jerseys. There's no reason to not allow them to wear their dark jersey when it contrasts with the other team's jersey.

It doesn't bother me for basketball because it's been that way forever. In soccer, otoh, they're bucking with the tradition of the game for no good reason.

It is a good idea because that game was a mess.

Mechanics?
 

Jeremy,
My concern here would be mechanics at the spot of the throw-in not helping avoid the obvious confusion amongst the players. You say you handed the ball to the thrower. It's not a front court throw-in for them, so I would expect you to bounce it. Did you inform the thrower and give a visible signal as to whether it was a spot throw-in? In looking at the mechanics manual I don't see a specific mention (resuming play after time out) of giving direction (as in the start of a quarter), but I know I will give a visible direction as the teams break their huddles and take the court. Did you do that?

As they broke their huddle I called out for yellow ball as I was standing on the endline. I remember saying to the yellow player that you have the baseline and can run. Black had scored right before yellow called timeout. I handed the ball to the player instead of bouncing because there was defensive pressure. I did not point in the direction that yellow should be going after the timeout was over. Should I be doing this after a timeout? I do it after an intermission. After a timeout I will just state the color.

I believe the confusion came from the fact that black had been pressing all game, they came up to press which brought all of yellow up. The coaches for Black then yelled "No you are in 3-2." Black moved into a 3-2 half court zone but did so in the front court. I think this is where the yellow brains went haywire that they were on their offensive end. While handing the ball to yellow the Coaches of Black yelled that they were on the wrong end. They retreated just as yellow was throwing the ball in.

Yes. imo.

I always do if the ball is coming in on the sideline but for never do if it is on the endline. No reason, mainly bc I never thought about it.

Has a JV boys game last year, came in early and both teams had the same yellow jerseys on with very little difference in highlights. I am so glad I did not have that game. Afterward, I asked the refs if they tried to find t-shirts to go under one of the teams jerseys, and he wished he thought of that.

Sounds like you weren't the problem.
 

kids! Sounds like you did all you could do.

Put it this way: it can't hurt.

I've always found it interesting that the manual calls for the T to hand the ball to A1 if there's defensive pressure in the backcourt. I would think the powers that be would want the T to bounce it to make sure s/he starts with a wider view of the action. Plus, if A1 can run the end line and the T is standing next to him/her that could create a problem. Ah well.

I have to admit I don't follow that. When there's pressure I tend to step further away to get a better angle on the defenders.

Agree with others...
 

I've never found that handing the ball put me in a better position to officiate.