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-   -   Almost blarge (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/93453-almost-blarge.html)

JetMetFan Wed Jan 09, 2013 09:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 871258)
...and in the path...if you're not in the path, you're not even guarding, much less having legal guarding position.
The defender would appear to be in the path since he's between A1 and the goal. The only way he's not in the path is if A1 wasn't heading to the goal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 871258)
Unrelated, those angles show that the L has the most open view of that play while the C had to deal with #1 crossing his line of sight.
I would argue there's no way for the L to know this unless C has the chance to make a call on the play but doesn't. As the video shows, C was coming out with a call but L reached out of his area to take the play. To me, this is the same situation as the Montverde/Simeon play posted in the other string. Let the guy who is supposed to call the play call it. Unless the NCAAM CCA manual differs from the NCAAW CCA manual on this, the C has the primary call on this because the play took place on his side of the floor.

Camron Rust Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 871259)
The defender would appear to be in the path since he's between A1 and the goal. The only way he's not in the path is if A1 wasn't heading to the goal.
The path is the direction the player is heading...which may or may not be directly to the basket. At that point, what direction was the player moving in? He was going to the right of the defender then cut back to go around the left side. The stills don't show the timing of that.

Raymond Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 871258)
...

Unrelated, those angles show that the L has the most open view of that play while the C had to deal with #1 crossing his line of sight.
The Lead had at least one body in his vision path. And the contact occurred outside the paint. The Lead needs to have a late whistle, not the primary whistle.

jeschmit Thu Jan 10, 2013 09:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 871259)
The defender would appear to be in the path since he's between A1 and the goal. The only way he's not in the path is if A1 wasn't heading to the goal.



I would argue there's no way for the L to know this unless C has the chance to make a call on the play but doesn't. As the video shows, C was coming out with a call but L reached out of his area to take the play. To me, this is the same situation as the Montverde/Simeon play posted in the other string. Let the guy who is supposed to call the play call it. Unless the NCAAM CCA manual differs from the NCAAW CCA manual on this, the C has the primary call on this because the play took place on his side of the floor.
This is the C's call... In both NCAA-M and NCAA-W. The contact isn't even taken in the lane. Lead stretched, and when you make a call out of your area, you are more likely to be wrong than right.

Rich Thu Jan 10, 2013 09:57am
This is just my opinion, but I think those who would call this a block expect too much from defenders.

Tio Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:16am
This is a block. The defender overruns the angle then backtracks to try and take the charge and DOES NOT beat the offense to the spot. The offensive player makes a move to avoid the contact. Agree with Camron 100% that the defender doesn't get into the path in time.

If you don't see this when reviewing the top angle (0:23 seconds) we will have to agree to disagree on the outcome.

Raymond Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tio (Post 871324)
This is a block. The defender overruns the angle then backtracks to try and take the charge and DOES NOT beat the offense to the spot. The offensive player makes a move to avoid the contact. Agree with Camron 100% that the defender doesn't get into the path in time.

If you don't see this when reviewing the top angle (0:23 seconds) we will have to agree to disagree on the outcome.
A1 is not an airborne shooter and B1 beats him to the spot, so I have a PC.

Rich Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tio (Post 871324)
This is a block. The defender overruns the angle then backtracks to try and take the charge and DOES NOT beat the offense to the spot. The offensive player makes a move to avoid the contact. Agree with Camron 100% that the defender doesn't get into the path in time.

If you don't see this when reviewing the top angle (0:23 seconds) we will have to agree to disagree on the outcome.
Then we will disagree. No skin off my nose.

Welpe Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tio (Post 871324)
This is a block. The defender ... DOES NOT beat the offense to the spot.
With the contact squarely in the chest (I understand that's not the rule), it is hard for me to see it that way.

JugglingReferee Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 871318)
This is just my opinion, but I think those who would call this a block expect too much from defenders.
Precisely.

Camron Rust Thu Jan 10, 2013 01:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 871343)
With the contact squarely in the chest (I understand that's not the rule), it is hard for me to see it that way.
Taking contact in the chest is not relevant if the defender never got 2 feet down while facing the opponent....and that is the point I'm making. I'm not sure he did.

And, while I've been arguing the point of view supporting a block, I'd probably have a charge in the game....close enough to legal for me that I'd not be able to tell otherwise in real time.

rockyroad Thu Jan 10, 2013 02:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 871333)
Then we will disagree. No skin off my nose.
If there is skin off your nose, I can give you some of mine as I happen to agree with you...and will add that I think your comment about expecting too much from the defender is spot on, and is one of the big problems I see with officiating in my area (it's probably not a problem in that one certain area of Illinois, though).

Tio Thu Jan 10, 2013 03:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 871318)
This is just my opinion, but I think those who would call this a block expect too much from defenders.
Only that they beat the offense to the spot to get a charge.

rockyroad Thu Jan 10, 2013 03:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tio (Post 871372)
Only that they beat the offense to the spot to get a charge.
Is that required by rule?

Rich Thu Jan 10, 2013 03:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tio (Post 871372)
Only that they beat the offense to the spot to get a charge.
The picture you reference is well before the contact. Since it's not an airborne shooter, I'm just looking for feet down facing the ball handler before contact. And IMO, this is satisfied.

I thought we agreed to disagree.


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