Almost blarge
 

6:59 in first half of Purdue/Ohio State game. L had a block and C had PC. C all but signalled the PC and they went with the block. L reached across the lane just like in the high school video from recently.

They also just had a spot throw-in violation and the administering official gave the traveling signal.

To me, those are still a blarge. I'm sure that the coach that would have benefited from the charge knew what the C was about to call. And the coach rightfully should say something to the crew.

I'd like to see video to compare it to the HS call you mentioned.

I think it was a blarge too. The C turned his body and brought his right arm up to point the other direction but didn't extend it.

I also think the L got it wrong and it was a PC foul.

If someone can get the video it would be much appreciated.

If APG doesn't beat me to it I'll try to post when I get home from work later this morning.

I had to laugh when I watched it. The C had that "gee, I hope no one noticed me" body language when he pulled back on the PC call.

That's what I'm talking about. At that level, I don't think they fool anyone.

Here's the play...
 

...talk amongst yourselves.

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/daY2108_7ik" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Steratore had no business having whistle on that play. He a whistle on an OOB later that wasn't his line and the called had to be reversed.

Agreed...for some reason the L reaches across on plays like this quite often in NCAA-M games. I really don't get it.

I ask this because I don't have any 3 man experience; on this play, what should the L be looking at if he's NOT supposed to be looking at this contact? Doesn't he have to come up with a whistle here and maybe defer to the C?

At what point (if any) does this call become the L's? Once it gets into the lane?

On top of that, I think it's an IC. Just goes to show what happens when you reach.

Come up with a fist, not with two hands banging the hips.

He has three to four other players running into the key to be watching as they position for rebounds or try to contest the shot. He should wait and let the C have this call as it is clearly his...if the C doesn't have a whistle, then go get it, but let the C have first crack at it.

Silly L....IC for you....Sincerely, John Adams

And if it's the same one I'm thinking of, they got it wrong too. They conferred and gave it to Purdue. The replay showed Purdue's player caused it to go OOB.

After seeing it, what are everyone's thoughts about whether it's a blarge or not? The C was clearly going to call a PC foul, no doubt about it. Does the fact that he didn't finish the mechanic change anything?

After seeing it again, I think it's a blarge.

This will probably lead into the "when is a call actually called" argument again...

IMO, since the C did not actually signal anything (yes, he started to), I do not think it was a blarge.

I think you have to administer the blarge. The C is pointing the other way and the L signals block. It is hard to explain your way out of it based on what the tape shows.

From a mechanics standpoint... this is exactly why we preach "slow to show from the outside." Everyone should really be slow to show but I understand why the lead tends to get excited on bang/bang plays.

Additionally when in transition, we should discuss court coverage in pregame. IMO - the lead DOES NOT have first crack at a play outside the far lane line. First shot goes to the C.

After looking at the play, I think a blocking foul is the correct call though.

I think it's a blarge too. The C is just about to finish hammering it down when he pulls his arm down like he had to suddenly scratch an itch.

Sure can't find a block in that play.

Can I ask you what the defender did wrong there?

If you look at the "top view" near the end of the clip (23 seconds or so), the offensive player makes a move to go around the defender (offense's left) and the defender actually stops, reverses direction and jumps to his right. He does not beat the offensive player to the spot and I have a block.

This is the only part I disagree with. Bang-bang, but the defender's feet were both on the ground at that new-ish spot before the shooter's foot leaves the floor, IMO.

True. That.

They did get it wrong but Steratore actually had it right initially. If I remember correctly it was an odd play where the lead came across with his hand up, seemingly asking for help. Steratore emphatically pointed the other way then the L indicates possession would stay on this end of the floor.

They got together and end up going with the Ls call but replays showed that was wrong. Whole thing seemed odd the way they handled it.

As for this play, Steratore absolutely needs to give the C the first crack at this.

I have a PC. The defender maintained LGP. He was moving backwards at the point of contact and A1 had not left the floor on his try attempt.

That is the beauty of this! To each is entitled his own opinion.

That being said, the fact that he has to jump back and is does not beat the offensive player to the spot seals the deal. But, if you watch the real-time play it is close. The top-view at the end of the clip provides the best angle.

I'm not so sure he ever had 2 feet down while in the path and facing the offense. At the moment he had 2 feet down, he wasn't facing the opponent but was turned sideways. He stepped back to turn and face the opponent but that foot didn't make it to the floor before contact.

It is extremely close, however.

If the Lead had asked for help or had Steratore let the Lead make his call first then brought him the info I believe they would have ended up getting it right.

These 2 plays illustrate 2 situations that should be part of our pregames.

Fair point. So the question could be do these qualify as two feet and facing. They're all roughly the same moment, just from different angles.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2btqvs.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/cmdf7.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/21d2b9j.jpg

...and in the path...if you're not in the path, you're not even guarding, much less having legal guarding position.

Assuming you consider it in the path, the question that would answer that would be whether you would have called a block or a charge if the defender was just reaching that position simultaneous with contact. I don't think I've ever seen a charge called when a defender arrives and takes contact while still turned like that and takes the contact from the direction where the opponent is...he would have run into the side of his shoulder.

Unrelated, those angles show that the L has the most open view of that play while the C had to deal with #1 crossing his line of sight.

The defender would appear to be in the path since he's between A1 and the goal. The only way he's not in the path is if A1 wasn't heading to the goal.

I would argue there's no way for the L to know this unless C has the chance to make a call on the play but doesn't. As the video shows, C was coming out with a call but L reached out of his area to take the play. To me, this is the same situation as the Montverde/Simeon play posted in the other string. Let the guy who is supposed to call the play call it. Unless the NCAAM CCA manual differs from the NCAAW CCA manual on this, the C has the primary call on this because the play took place on his side of the floor.

The path is the direction the player is heading...which may or may not be directly to the basket. At that point, what direction was the player moving in? He was going to the right of the defender then cut back to go around the left side. The stills don't show the timing of that.

The Lead had at least one body in his vision path. And the contact occurred outside the paint. The Lead needs to have a late whistle, not the primary whistle.

This is the C's call... In both NCAA-M and NCAA-W. The contact isn't even taken in the lane. Lead stretched, and when you make a call out of your area, you are more likely to be wrong than right.

This is just my opinion, but I think those who would call this a block expect too much from defenders.

This is a block. The defender overruns the angle then backtracks to try and take the charge and DOES NOT beat the offense to the spot. The offensive player makes a move to avoid the contact. Agree with Camron 100% that the defender doesn't get into the path in time.

If you don't see this when reviewing the top angle (0:23 seconds) we will have to agree to disagree on the outcome.

A1 is not an airborne shooter and B1 beats him to the spot, so I have a PC.

Then we will disagree. No skin off my nose.

With the contact squarely in the chest (I understand that's not the rule), it is hard for me to see it that way.

Precisely.

Taking contact in the chest is not relevant if the defender never got 2 feet down while facing the opponent....and that is the point I'm making. I'm not sure he did.

And, while I've been arguing the point of view supporting a block, I'd probably have a charge in the game....close enough to legal for me that I'd not be able to tell otherwise in real time.

If there is skin off your nose, I can give you some of mine as I happen to agree with you...and will add that I think your comment about expecting too much from the defender is spot on, and is one of the big problems I see with officiating in my area (it's probably not a problem in that one certain area of Illinois, though).

Only that they beat the offense to the spot to get a charge.

Is that required by rule?

The picture you reference is well before the contact. Since it's not an airborne shooter, I'm just looking for feet down facing the ball handler before contact. And IMO, this is satisfied.

I thought we agreed to disagree.

Basketball at its fundamental roots is all about the offense beating the defense to more advantageous position to score. It is the spirit for which every rule was written.

Look, it is a close play. The real learning on this is the court positioning and communication between the C & L.

This thread can be closed as far as I'm concerned.

Fixed it for you...

I agree with both points here: that officials who require defenders to be standing still in a spot long before contact are making defense too difficult, and that such a requirement seems to be imposed by many HS officials.

Some folks I have worked with seem to call a block on virtually all contact, and they seem to justify doing so on the ground that they get less flak for it. That's not good officiating, IMO, and makes defense too hard.

Some people are worried about the "pendulum" swinging the other way, with too many PC calls, making offense too hard. I don't see that happening in my area.

Agreed.

+100. Couldn't have said it better.