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-   -   Start the clock (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/93446-start-clock.html)

#olderthanilook Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:17am

Start the clock
 
Situation: JV Game. Team B is down by 1 point. Team A is in the 1 and 1 bonus and have a throw in near the division line coming out of a time out. B1 fouls A1.
A1's try on front end hits the rim hard and bounces left over every player's heads before they can react. As soon as the ball touched the floor, the T chops the clock. The ball bounces out of bounds untouched as time expires. Game over. Of course, Coach for Team B goes ballistic wanting to know why the clock started before anyone touched the ball.

The following rules reference seems to address this, but, is there anything else that would indicate the should sart before touching or being touched?

Rule: 5-9-3
ART. 3

If a free throw is not successful and the ball is to remain live, the clock shall be started when the ball touches or is touched by a player on the court.

Thoughts?

Freddy Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:21am

Just the Facts, Ma'am
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook (Post 870857)
Thoughts?

Thoughts don't cut it.
Your partner, after all, did what he "thought" was correct.
Which wasn't.
Facts are . . . your rules reference is correct; coach was correct.
Oops :o

#olderthanilook Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 870858)
Thoughts don't cut it.
Your partner, after all, did what he "thought" was correct.
Which wasn't.
Facts are . . . your rules reference is correct; coach was correct.
Oops :o

My partner didn't make the call.

Freddy Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook (Post 870861)
My partner didn't make the call.

Oops :o

OKREF Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:37am

Why chop the clock before it is touched? Hitting the floor is irrelevant. It has to be touched by a player.

JugglingReferee Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook (Post 870857)
Situation: JV Game. Team B is down by 1 point. Team A is in the 1 and 1 bonus and have a throw in near the division line coming out of a time out. B1 fouls A1.
A1's try on front end hits the rim hard and bounces left over every player's heads before they can react. As soon as the ball touched the floor, the T chops the clock. The ball bounces out of bounds untouched as time expires. Game over. Of course, Coach for Team B goes ballistic wanting to know why the clock started before anyone touched the ball.

The following rules reference seems to address this, but, is there anything else that would indicate the should start before touching or being touched?

Rule: 5-9-3
ART. 3

If a free throw is not successful and the ball is to remain live, the clock shall be started when the ball touches or is touched by a player on the court.

Thoughts?

I think you meant A1's shot?

No, there is nothing in the book that indicates the clock starts when it touches the floor. On a jumped ball, the clock starts when a jumper touches it. On a throw-in, it also starts when a player first touches it.

My thoughts: Reset the game clock to what it was and give it to Team B where it went out of bounds.

OKREF Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:41am

Why use the arrow?
Reset clock, and team B gets the ball. The free throw went out of bounds untouched.

johnny d Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:41am

put the time back on the clock. B's ball since a1 was last to touch it inbounds.

JugglingReferee Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:45am

Yes, thank you. Sorry, in my head I stupidly thought something else.

Give it to Team B.

#olderthanilook Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 870864)
Oops :o

No worries. I didn't make the call either.

I was in the stands spectating.

NCAAREF Tue Jan 08, 2013 02:32pm

Give it to B?
 
Why would you give it to Team B? There is no Team Control once the FT is in flight. You would need to use the AP arrow to determine who gets the ball.

APG Tue Jan 08, 2013 02:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCAAREF (Post 870953)
Why would you give it to Team B? There is no Team Control once the FT is in flight. You would need to use the AP arrow to determine who gets the ball.

A1 was last to touch the ball before it went OOB.

rockyroad Tue Jan 08, 2013 02:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCAAREF (Post 870953)
Why would you give it to Team B? There is no Team Control once the FT is in flight. You would need to use the AP arrow to determine who gets the ball.

It was not an inadvertent whistle...A touched it last. B gets the ball.

deecee Tue Jan 08, 2013 02:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCAAREF (Post 870953)
Why would you give it to Team B? There is no Team Control once the FT is in flight. You would need to use the AP arrow to determine who gets the ball.

So on a missed FT that touches no one and goes OOB you call a Jump Ball?

Indianaref Tue Jan 08, 2013 02:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCAAREF (Post 870953)
Why would you give it to Team B? There is no Team Control once the FT is in flight. You would need to use the AP arrow to determine who gets the ball.

Really? A was last to touch.

bob jenkins Tue Jan 08, 2013 02:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCAAREF (Post 870953)
Why would you give it to Team B? There is no Team Control once the FT is in flight. You would need to use the AP arrow to determine who gets the ball.

There's no Team Control once a "regular try" is in flight. What do you do if the ball goes OOB?

What do you do if the FT hits the ring, and the ball bounces up and hits thre restraining strap or goes over the backboard? (besides checking the inflation of the ball)

BillyMac Tue Jan 08, 2013 03:10pm

I Already Know, You Don't Have To Tell Me, I'm A Bad Boy ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 870962)
Besides checking the inflation of the ball.

That's why, if the ball is overinflated, some of us carry a needle in our jacket pocket.

#olderthanilook Wed Jan 09, 2013 09:35am

So....

Throw-in at the spot for B, or go to the AP?

bob jenkins Wed Jan 09, 2013 09:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook (Post 871108)
So....

Throw-in at the spot for B, or go to the AP?

Depends on the timing.

If everyone stopped at the horn, and the ball was still "in play" then go to the arrow.

If the ball was OOB at the horn, give the ball to B.

If the ball was "just about to go OOB and it's obvious that A wasn't going to get it and that B wasn't going to touch it" then give the benefit of the doubt to the second option.

Adam Wed Jan 09, 2013 09:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook (Post 871108)
So....

Throw-in at the spot for B, or go to the AP?

Why would you go to the AP?

#olderthanilook Wed Jan 09, 2013 09:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 871113)
Why would you go to the AP?

I wouldn't.

But at least 1 or 2 responders to the OP said they would. Didn't seem like there was a consensus.

Adam Wed Jan 09, 2013 09:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook (Post 871114)
I wouldn't.

But at least 1 or 2 responders to the OP said they would. Didn't seem like there was a consensus.

There was, with one or two dissents.

#olderthanilook Wed Jan 09, 2013 09:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 871112)
Depends on the timing.

If everyone stopped at the horn, and the ball was still "in play" then go to the arrow.

If the ball was OOB at the horn, give the ball to B.

If the ball was "just about to go OOB and it's obvious that A wasn't going to get it and that B wasn't going to touch it" then give the benefit of the doubt to the second option.

The other part of this is, the clock was chopped when the ball hit the floor. Thus, most of the time remaining on the clock ran out.

I would reset clock to time showing when A1 went to the FT line and give the ball to B for a spot throw-in where the ball bounced OOB.

Does anyone have anything different? If so, why?

Adam Wed Jan 09, 2013 09:47am

Exactly what I'd do.


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