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-   -   Foul at end of the game (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/93428-foul-end-game.html)

Voolander Sun Jan 06, 2013 06:31pm

Foul at end of the game
 
Team A is down 1 when they intercept the ball from Team B on B's side of the court. Team A attempts to shoot the ball, official blows whistle for foul and horn sounds simultaneously, should Team A be awarded 2 free throws?

maven Sun Jan 06, 2013 06:39pm

It wasn't simultaneous; something happened first. If the foul happened first, then you're shooting (with the lane cleared). If the horn happened first, game over.

BillyMac Sun Jan 06, 2013 06:41pm

Grasping At Straws ???
 
Not sure that this helps, but it's all I've got for now:

3-13: If the red/LED light fails to illuminate and the timer’s signal fails to sound, or is
not recognized by the officials,
the timer shall go onto the court or use other
means to immediately notify the nearest official. If in the meantime, a goal has
been made or a foul has occurred, the referee shall consult the timer:

ART. 1 If table officials agree that time expired before the ball was in flight,
the goal shall not count.

ART. 2 If table officials agree that the quarter or extra period ended, as in
5-6-2 before the foul occurred, the foul shall be disregarded, unless it was
intentional or flagrant.

ART. 3 If table officials disagree, the goal shall count and/or the foul shall
be penalized, unless the referee has knowledge which alters such ruling.

just another ref Sun Jan 06, 2013 06:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voolander (Post 870490)
Team A is down 1 when they intercept the ball from Team B on B's side of the court. Team A attempts to shoot the ball, official blows whistle for foul and horn sounds simultaneously, should Team A be awarded 2 free throws?

First, I'm assuming that this was not a throw-in pass with .3 or less on the clock. According to the sequence of events in your description, there should be free throws.

interception

start of try

whistle/horn


A release of the shot is not necessary to have free throws in this situation, if that's what you are asking.

BillyMac Sun Jan 06, 2013 06:57pm

Act Of Shooting ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 870497)
A release of the shot is not necessary to have free throws in this situation, if that's what you are asking.

Good point.

Raymond Sun Jan 06, 2013 06:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by maven (Post 870494)
It wasn't simultaneous; something happened first. If the foul happened first, then you're shooting (with the lane cleared). If the horn happened first, game over.

Why can't 2 separate events happen simultaneously?

Voolander Sun Jan 06, 2013 07:08pm

The ref in question said both events happened at the same time and he ended the game. I think I have what I need to make me feel better. I witnessed this call and the official wouldn't listen to me. He indicated that since both events happened at the exact same time the game is over. The foul in this situation would've put Team A in the double bonus. I think he's wrong, but it is water under the bridge now.

BktBallRef Sun Jan 06, 2013 07:15pm

It has nothing to do with the whistle. If the foul occurs before the horn, you shoot FTs. And since the whistle always comes after the foul, there's your answer.

BillyMac Sun Jan 06, 2013 07:29pm

Pick A Prize From The Top Shelf ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 870518)
It has nothing to do with the whistle. If the foul occurs before the horn, you shoot FTs. And since the whistle always comes after the foul, there's your answer.

Great point.

Blindolbat Sun Jan 06, 2013 09:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 870499)
Good point.

Had this happen to me the other day in a JVG game. Called a foul on defense as horn was going off and ball came out of hands after the buzzer. Gave two free throws and the coach wasn't too happy. Of course my partner questioned my interpretation as well:rolleyes:, but I felt pretty confident.

26 Year Gap Sun Jan 06, 2013 09:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 870503)
Why can't 2 separate events happen simultaneously?

You mean like a multiple foul?:D

bob jenkins Mon Jan 07, 2013 09:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 870518)
It has nothing to do with the whistle. If the foul occurs before the horn, you shoot FTs. And since the whistle always comes after the foul, there's your answer.

Agreed, and if you don't know which happened first, then the foul happened first.

Voolander Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:03am

Well to make matters worse, the team that got fouled was in the double bonus so the shot coming out didn't matter. I strongly believe based on what I've read here that foul at the horn should've resulted in FTs.

Adam Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voolander (Post 870636)
Well to make matters worse, the team that got fouled was in the double bonus so the shot coming out didn't matter. I strongly believe based on what I've read here that foul at the horn should've resulted in FTs.

Maybe.

BillyMac Mon Jan 07, 2013 01:22pm

Basis For Interpretation ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 870628)
If you don't know which happened first, then the foul happened first.

Based on this: "If table officials disagree, the goal shall count and/or the foul shall be penalized, unless the referee has knowledge which alters such ruling."?


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