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-   -   First to touch? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/93417-first-touch.html)

letemplay Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 870653)
I think you're missing my point.

This is something that is black-n-white within the rule book. Yes, during a game or in the locker room, you might get some mis-information. But once you've left the game and now get a chance to think about the rule, you're FIRST MOVE should be to the rule book, not asking for more opinions.

So this forum/message board is NOT for opinions? Funny, I think I've read a few.

Freddy Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:41am

Huh?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BigT (Post 870655)
I have a questions. When he came back onto the court was the ball bouncing and did he start dribbling. Or did he pick up the ball and start a dribble? If he picked up the ball and started to dribble it is an illegal dribble not an OB violation.

:confused:

I have a questions on your questions.

letemplay Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 870657)
:confused:

I have a questions on your questions.

Why is it an illegal dribble? He had not previously dribbled and it had been touched by another player.

bob jenkins Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigT (Post 870655)
I have a questions. When he came back onto the court was the ball bouncing and did he start dribbling. Or did he pick up the ball and start a dribble? If he picked up the ball and started to dribble it is an illegal dribble not an OB violation.

Depends on what the OP meant by "knocked it back inbounds".

Most of the time (in my experience) that's not a dribble. So, gathering the ball (after the player comes inbounds) is not ending the dribble. So the "next" dribble is legal.

Adam Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by letemplay (Post 870656)
So this forum/message board is NOT for opinions? Funny, I think I've read a few.

Still missing his point.

Some plays call for opinions.

Others, such as player location, are not subject to opinion. They're just too clear.

BigT Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by letemplay (Post 870659)
Why is it an illegal dribble? He had not previously dribbled and it had been touched by another player.

7.1.1 SITUATION D: A1 jumps from inbounds to retrieve an errant pass near a
boundary line. A1 catches the ball while in the air and tosses it back to the court.
A1 lands out of bounds and (a) is the first to touch the ball after returning
inbounds; (b) returns inbounds and immediately dribbles the ball; or (c) picks up
the ball after returning to the court and then begins a dribble. RULING: Legal in
Page 59 2011-12 NFHS Basketball Case Rule 7
(a) and (b). Illegal in (c) as the controlled toss of the ball to the court by A1 constitutes
the start of a dribble, dribbling a second time after picking up the ball is
an illegal dribble violation.
(4-15-5; 4-15-6d; 4-35; 9-5)

just another ref Mon Jan 07, 2013 01:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigT (Post 870678)
7.1.1 SITUATION D: A1 jumps from inbounds to retrieve an errant pass near a
boundary line. A1 catches the ball while in the air and tosses it back to the court.
A1 lands out of bounds and (a) is the first to touch the ball after returning
inbounds; (b) returns inbounds and immediately dribbles the ball; or (c) picks up
the ball after returning to the court and then begins a dribble. RULING: Legal in
Page 59 2011-12 NFHS Basketball Case Rule 7
(a) and (b). Illegal in (c) as the controlled toss of the ball to the court by A1 constitutes
the start of a dribble, dribbling a second time after picking up the ball is
an illegal dribble violation.
(4-15-5; 4-15-6d; 4-35; 9-5)

Not enough information in the OP to say whether this case is applicable or not. If the player did not catch the ball, but rather just batted it back in, this would not constitute a dribble.

MD Longhorn Mon Jan 07, 2013 01:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by letemplay (Post 870634)
That is how I would rule it, but have seen others say both feet needed to be clearly down before touching.

These others you see... ask them to return to officiating football, where their notions are correct.

BillyMac Mon Jan 07, 2013 01:28pm

Was I Right ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 870632)
Look up player location.

You are where you are until you get where you're going.

APG Mon Jan 07, 2013 01:28pm

In the NBA, a player may NOT be the first to touch the ball after going out of bounds if they are dribbling the ball or if they save the ball by controlling (throwing) it. If the player saves the ball by batting it, they MAY be the first to touch the ball.

That may be source of confusion for some officials and definitely a case where fans will think we rule a play incorrectly (much like a backcourt call with a defensive deflection even with the offense being the last to touch and first to touch).

BillyMac Mon Jan 07, 2013 01:30pm

The Mythbusters Thank You ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by APG (Post 870687)
In the NBA, a player may NOT be the first to touch the ball after going out of bounds if they are dribbling the ball or if they save the ball by controlling (throwing) it. If the player saves the ball by batting it, they MAY be the first to touch the ball. That may be source of confusing for some.

Thanks APG. That may be the source of this NFHS "myth".

jeremy341a Mon Jan 07, 2013 02:14pm

Being my first year I tagged along with 3 veteren officials Friday night for a learning experience. Player A1 chases down a long pass as he was cherry picking. He saves the ball from going out of bounds. Runs back in bounds and scoops it up dishing it to his teamate for the layup. The crowd went crazy.

bob jenkins Mon Jan 07, 2013 02:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 870686)
You are where you are until you get where you're going.

While true, this does nothing to help answer the question asked -- did the player "get where (he was) going?"

MD Longhorn Mon Jan 07, 2013 02:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 870697)
While true, this does nothing to help answer the question asked -- did the player "get where (he was) going?"

100% of the time, the player gets where he was going. The question is ... was where we was going where he intended to go?

Raymond Mon Jan 07, 2013 02:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by letemplay (Post 870656)
So this forum/message board is NOT for opinions? Funny, I think I've read a few.

You're still missing the point. At what point do you verify what the rule book says, and not just get opinions from other officials?

And there is no "opinion" about player location in the example you cited. It's clearly defined in the rule book. So I'm bewildered as to why you choose opinions over the actual written rule. :confused:


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