Replacement FT for buzzer sounding?
 

Was doing a girls freshman game today. White led 41-40 with around five seconds left and was at the line shooting two. As she puts up the first free throw, table sounds the horn to inform me that the girl who'd committed the foul had five. The free throw missed. White's coach wanted a replacement free throw. I told her no because the only way we can give a replacement free throw is if B violates. We got the DQ'd girl out of the game and shot the second free throw, which was good. Blue missed a three at the buzzer and White won.

I don't believe there's anything in the rules that give the officials discretion to award a replacement FT for anything other than a violation by B. Am I wrong?

It is a judgement call if you feel the FTs were affected by the buzzer. Otherwise you play on. Hard to tell if that is the case here. I guess the question I would ask, which was the home team? If the home team was at the line I would be more inclined to let it go. If the visiting team did this I would be more likely to give a substitute. It also would matter about the timing of the buzzer as well. But ultimately the casebook used to say it was at the discretion of the officials to decide if you stop play for this.

Peace

How do you possibly justify this?

Easy. I have had home teams conveniently blow the horn when the other team has the ball or when they are in action. I know it has happen on purpose a couple of times. That is why I said it would depend on a lot of things. But if the home team did it to themselves, then that is all you have to say to the coach. "You hired them."

The thing is there is no right or wrong answer because if this is not in the rulebook then the Referee can make any decision they want to because it is not directly in the rulebook. I am pretty sure there used to be a casebook play giving some guidance, but I could not find anything in the current books.

Peace

I agree with Rut.

Did the table do it to distract the shooter?

That's how I justify it.

I don't know, did they? We are not equipped to make that judgment.

This is why you get paid the big bucks, to make decisions that no one else can.

Peace

If this is a single incident, which hopefully it is, it would be totally unfair to assume it was intentionally done. Whatever you would do for one team in this case must be done for the other.

It is not a matter of if it is intentionally done IMO. I think the issue that it was done and you will have to decide if something should be done about it.

This happened in the Big East Tournament a few years ago where that controversial ending took place with clock and all 3 officials basically not working the rest of the tournament.

St. John's was playing Rutgers in Madison Square Garden in an early round game. Well a St. John's player was at the FT line with about 6 seconds on the clock to go in the game. Well the horn was blown during the routine of the FT shooter. About 3 players on the FT lane turned away and reacted to horn being blown. Fortunately the FT shooter made the FTs but I used this video as an example to show what you might do or if this was a time to stop the game and redo or let it play out.

I am sure I can find it on YouTube were I pulled the video from.

Horn sounding on FT

Look at about 1:50 on the video and you will see what I am talking about.

Peace

We have a couple of coaches around here that I would not put it past to have an agreement with their clock operator to do this at just the right time.

This was that infamous game with Burr and higgins - with the uncalled travel/OOB with time left on the clock at the end of the game...not to mention some controversial calls/no-calls in the last couple minutes.

OT - It's easy to say on paper that we shouldn't award a replacement, or if we do it for one team we do it for the other.l

In the real world, the visiting team in a close game with a shooter at the line who gets "buzzed" in the middle of their FT...just looks bad. I have no problem giving a replacement in the right circumstances.....

....and this is why.

BTW - that was absolutely a bloody FOUL at the end of that Rut/SJ game...right Rut? :D

So it was not intentionally done. You are more likely to allow an accident to happen to the home team?



We're talking about whether or not to award a replacement free throw and this is a video of a made free throw. In this video the ones that were distracted were the players along the lane, so they might have been prevented from getting a rebound. But he made it so it's kind of a moot point, especially with regard to the OP.

Fixed it for ya. No Charge!:D

Really? Who says?

Uh, logic, common sense, and fair play? If I'm overlooking something, let's hear it.

If a home scorer hits a timer as a visiting player is shooting a free throw, there's no question I'm going to allow another throw. I'm not entirely certain I'd give the same latitude to a home player -- depends on the situation.

Same as if the timer is a bit slow stopping the clock -- I'm likely going to look at it a bit more carefully if the home timer does something marginal that disadvantages the visiting team.

They're supposed to be part of the officiating crew, but in most cases they are hired by the home team and in their hearts are not a neutral party.

White=home

imo

So you make an officiating decision based on what may be "in the heart" of the clock operator?

Yes, I'd be more inclined to give a replacement shot to the visiting team. Right or wrong, I just would.

Here's the problem I have.

Your extra consideration definitely favors one team.

You know that when you do it.

This is, in theory to rectify a disservice which was intentionally done by someone else, but you will never know whether it was intentional or not.



When your partner makes 3 calls in a row against one team which all look horrible to you, are you inclined to ignore a call against the other team?

Could have been a tournament. Not always the indication of who is actually home. And if it was a tournament, then the conversation from my end would be different.

Peace

With all due respect I do not know what the last example has to do with this issue. We know if a game is a regular game the home team likely hired the home team and in most of our experiences, they have a rooting interest in their team. They are often parents, teachers or people directly involved with the program. It is entirely possible for them to do something that benefits their team. Not to say this was the case, but it would cross my mind. And that has nothing to do with what my partners call. But all of a sudden in a critical stage of the game the horn goes off, then I am thinking of what could be happening. As I said it really depends on the timing of the horn. If the horn goes off right as the FT is being shot, I will take a different approach than if the horn goes off right when the ball is at the disposal of the shooter. It is not black and white, it is very grey and why I would think about all those things and come to a decision. I might stop everything before a shot is taken if it is done at the right time.

Peace

The issue is giving special consideration to one team to fix something which is possibly unjust. If your partner calls several fouls on the visitors when it is obvious to you that there is no contact on any of them, that would be unjust, but you wouldn't look at the next play any differently with this in mind, would you? I hope not.

We've been focusing only on the other side of the issue, but this is just as bad. You think it's all right to penalize a home player who was distracted on a free throw because the home clock operator is incompetent?

Again, not sure what my partner's calls have to do with what a table does to disrupt the visiting team? And if my partner is screwing things up like that, they will not be there very long and I do not have to do much of anything.

Peace

This is not about morals. This is about game management. The home team screws their team they are not getting the benefit of the doubt.

I am not asking you to like it, just telling you what I will and have done. I am OK with my position on this and having experienced these situation personally that is how I handled them. And in my experience this is the way most officials I deal with handle it the same way.

Peace

A few yrs ago in a VG game I had the home team "accidentally" touch the wrong button at the table just before half-time and the announcements/advertisements started playing just as the player was releasing the shot. CLANK..... it was the home team. Play on.

As this play states, it did make me pause though......

What he said. JAR, your even up scenario has nothing to do with this, either.

It's not just the intentional stuff, either. Even if it's just incompetence....

Wow, talk about a non sequitur.

What if the timer hit the horn because he was tased by the shot clock operator?

stupid..lol..don't tase me bro!

We don't know the intentions of the shot clock operator.

Let's make this easy. If the horn sounds... blow your whistle and kill the whole thing immediately.... before the shot attempt begins. Then figure out what is going on at the table, take care of the 5th foul then readminister the free throw. By waiting and the player missing the free throw you open a can of worms that we don't want/need to address. Squish the lizard before it turns into a dragon!

What if the horn doesn't sound before the attempt begins (which is how I read the OP)? ;)

I would still blow my whistle as loud as possible in the timer's ear. :)