Throw in violation, or legal play?
 

This got brought up in our meeting last night as we were talking about throw ins. We know it is illegal for the defense to reach through the boundary prior to the throw in being released (7-6-4 and 9-2-10). No issues there. The play in question is after a made basket when the offense throws a pass to another teammate who is also oob on the other side of the key. Can the defense reach through and deflect this pass or would this be a technical foul? I believe it is a smart and legal play by the defense since the ball was released by the thrower. Others disagree in saying that this is not released on the throw in pass. Nothing in case book that I could find, although I only looked in the rules referenced above and their related case plays.

All you need to know in this case. It was not a throw-in pass. So, the player reached over prior to the throw-in pass being released.

College rule
 

Did find the college rule and related case play. It is a tech (kind depends on men's or women's). A.R.193. College rule is worded slightly different from NFHS.

The ruling (if not the exact rule) is the same in all codes.

The others are correct. It is not a throw-in pass, so the defense cannot touch it. Technical foul.

10.3.10 SITUATION B:

The rule parameters and penalties are exactly the same for this in NCAA W and M; the technical fouls associated with them just have different classifying names.

Thanks
 

Tony,

Thanks for the HS case play. I knew I had seen it before. Guess I was wrong and owe the other guy a beer! D'oh! :eek: Oh well, fortunatly, this was not a game call, just a discussion so it's all good in that I didn't screw this up in real life! Otherwise, a letter might have been written!

Thanks for the replies from all.

Thanks for being a HS fan.
Sincerely,
The guy who would have received the letter

:D I don't care who you are, that's funny there! :D

I don't mean to sound like a d-bag, but isn't this pretty elementary?

TexRef, what level do these guys work that were involved in this discussion?

zm, we are mostly varsity officials. I was the one who thought it was legal, they said it wasn't. Basic, maybe, maybe not. I had a brain fart. It happens to all of us so I'm not sure what the relevance is of your post? :confused:

So the defense would have to wait until they were sure the ball had broken the plane before reaching for it? How can they judge that (successfully)? Suppose the pass is not to an out of bounds teammate, but a cross court pass to an inbounds player in opposite corner? You are going to expect a defender, with his team down by one, not to reach for that ball? I'm not talking about the onball defender, but probably a secondary defender in a press setup somewhere closer to receiver. There would be a point somewhere in that pass that the ball crosses the plane, but probably hard for a player to know in heat of battle. If there is no out of bounds receiver on this play, we all would assume that at any point after release of ball the defense could legally reach for it, correct? I'm kinda playing devils advocate here, realizing the OP was referencing an obvious pass between two out of bounds teammates and the defender most likely even crosses the plane himself to grab the ball. Here I have the obvious T, but think we have to be careful regarding exactly where the pass is headed, and at what point it is touched.

Yes, we (and the players) have to judge whether it's a "throw-in pass" or a "pass to another teammate oob".

Sometimes you need to officiate (play).

Whether the ball has crossed the plane yet doesn't matter in the first instance.

Just like they have to determine other things. If they don't do things the right way, there are consequences. It really is that simple.

Peace

Fixed it for ya! No charge.:D (Actually, I didn't change a thing from the original post).

I guess what I'm asking is suppose Team A has a spot throwin on their baseline about half way to corner. With Team B in a 2-3 zone, A1 attempts to throw the inbounds pass to a shooter in far corner. B5 standing near baseline under basket reaches for pass and knocks it back out of bounds. Even if he contacted ball prior to ball breaking plane, how many of us have a T here or should we?

That has absolutely nothing to do with the OP.

It is a technical foul if they reach through the throw-in plane just to touch the ball. If it is obvious I have a T. If it is close I might give some benefit of the doubt. Never seen this where that was an issue so I am not really going to worry about it that much.

Peace

It's a throw-in pass. It's been released. When can it be touched by the defense?

This is a legal play.

The restrictions end when the ball is released on a throw-in pass, even if that is before the ball crosses the plane.

Oh, and I'm the first one ever to high jack a thread:confused:

Thought I was asking a relative question. If not, in the words of my hero Steve Martin: WELL EXCUUUUSSSSEEEE MEEEEE:mad:

Thank you Bob for your explanation.

That is all well and good if you asked about a different situation as the OP. However, you really never moved off your original position of questioning the judgment of the original play description. A simple "What about this situation?" would do. It happens all of the time here. Otherwise, it appears that you are trying to discuss the original posit and are not using the original language of the play. A spot throw-in is entirely different from a throw-in after a made basket. But rather than accept the possiblity of a misinterpretation, you elected to go in a different direction.

And, it is "hijack" btw.:rolleyes:

"Sorry, if it happened like that I guess I missed it.":D

What are your thoughts on calling the DOG for breaking the plane? I see it happen in pretty much every game but have never seen anyone call it here. I did once, but have been extremely lenient since then.

You're looking too hard.

That is, I'm not disagreeing that a finger ot two might not break the plane, but you want the call to be more obvious before you call it.

Correct that this is a legal play for the defense.
But (though not with the response above in any way in mind, nor any hijack hijinx intended) an offensive player does not have this luxury (7-6-2).

As for the rare need for one of us to determine whether the thrown ball was a 7-5-7 pass to a teammate OOB or a pass deep across to the other side of the court, that's why good positioning so as to, with a quick movement, see right down the OOB line is important, I guess. Can't afford to back away farther OOB, or "leave early" to start heading up court after a made basket, right?