No Good T Stories?
 

I love the T stories, or the T or not threads. Nobody has any good ones from the weekend? I was told to "call it both ways" by opposing coaches during the same game this weekend, so that was pleasant.

Not Always T Time
 

The infrequency of regular "T stories" seems to bespeak a measure of admirability regarding the posters on this forum, no? Says to the general public that giving T's isn't what we're all about. (Not that John Q. Public is a regular lurker or anything; just sayin'.)
On the other hand, "to T or not to T" accounts I can learn from are always good to review when they do get posted.
I saw one given last week.

I just don't call a lot of technicals. And those I do call are usually fairly boring stories.

Did You Throw His *** Out Of The Game ???
 

Whenever I meet someone for the first time, and they discover that I'm a basketball official, they always ask me about technical fouls, like it's the most important part of my job. I'm never asked about block/charges, traveling, correctable errors, etc. It's always, "So, have you given out any technicals lately?".

I gave my first coach T this past week on an assistant. The tournament director did not like it, but I feel comfortable for giving the T. And I tried to warn or "give a hint" so that the behavior would have stopped. It is not a very good story, but like Rich says, I do not give a lot of Ts to coaches. I give more to players because they tend to not listen even when warned.

Peace

Coach's misbehavior earned him a T.

:shrug:

That's not much of a story, but it's all the story most of them should be.

This isn't my "best" T story but it might be the weirdest. A few years ago, I was working a game in my local kids rec league when my partner told me he had given a T to his partner the week before. :confused:

I thought I heard him wrong but that's what he said. Of course, I was really confused and asked him to tell me the story. What he meant was - he gave a T to a guy who he worked some games with early in the day during a later game when that guy was coaching his own son's team.

Until I heard the explanation, I thought were going to have a story to tell down through the ages.

I have not worked many games this season and only have a few run of the mill ones on players.

If The News Fits, Print It ...
 

Reminds me of this: "Dog Bites Man" is not a story. "Man Bites Dog", now that's a story.

3 Ts so far this year.

2 for adding numbers to the book in the waning moments of the game when the scrubs were being subbed in.

1 on a coach for ABS.

Had one for grasping the ring during warmups. We started with a T and the coach got to sit. He also benched the offending player for most of the first half.

My only other one was a player who threw his hands up and yelled "And one" toward me as a teammate was shooting during the first quarter. I should have whacked him immediately but decided to warn him very specifically at the next whistle (Which just happened to be a hand check on him;)) Fast forward to about three minutes left in the game. I'm the Lead in transition and he gets the ball stolen. Instead of turning around to go play defense he throws his hand up in the air at me again and starts to say something, so I stuck him. The HC wanted to blame me and give me the old "You can't call that with three minutes left in a seven point game" routine. I had to remind him that I warned his player right in front of him and I knew he heard it.

Youth level: T to an assistant after stopping the game after a made FTA to tell the head coach (who was sitting next to the assistant at that moment) he is the only bench personnel I want to hear anything from during the game. Assistant looks at me and starts to laugh sarcastically out loud in a display of complete disrepect.

WHACK

:D

That would be like giving a T to a mother who came out of the stands to care for her injured child. Almost.

I am finding that the longer I referee, the fewer "T"s I give. 4 years ago, it was 20 for the season about 60 games with church leagues and HS.

Last year I gave about 7 and I didn't have much of a choice. They were by the book Ts.

What I mean by that is, a kid yells the F word, a coach tried to show me up yelling at me, so forth and so on. I have avoided a few by being patient this year.

So far this year 1. That's about 20 games into the season.

"Can you show me where that is in the rule book coach?"

2 different games or the same game?

If it's the same game, is that 1 T or 2?

I thought book administrations were 1 T no matter how many infractions.

Sounds about right.

I turned to him and told him I don't care how much time is left or what the score is, because his player had been warned and he knew it.

I try to be judicious about T warnings to players. If you go straight to the "Triple Dog Dare" on the other team, that can get you in trouble. I prefer to speak to the coach about "Number 23" getting himself into trouble if he keeps it(fill in the blank) up.
I had one partner yell at a player for the whole gym to hear about him being a disgrace to himself, his team, and the whole school. He didn't want to T him up because I already had earlier. If i could have T'd my partner, that would have been the moment.

I've only given one to a player so far this yr. "Son, Thy protesteth too much."

I did have a P WHACK both coaches in one game. Made for a fairly tranquil second half! IOW, it served its purpose. ;)

Had zero Ts this year until Monday, when I had two.

JVG, FOUR delay-of-game violations (all breaking the plane), one for the visitors, then three for the home team, including a back-to-back pair.

I usually am less tolerant of players and more tolerant of coaches. I also will talk to players directly. Maybe that is not a good strategy, but I try to appeal to the player's common sense that if no other reason get them to realize they will lose this fight their want to have with officials. This used to work a lot early in my career, works very little now to the same effectiveness. It also would be nice if partners I have had would address these issues equally too. I have had a lot of partners that just let players say all kinds of things. Often time my comments to players are not about me at all.

Peace

I give more to players because they don't get much, if any, leeway.
(Just like assistants);)

2 different games.
First one was a varsity game, about 2 minutes left on the clock. Visiting Coach was incensed, claiming that the home scorekeeper 'copied the names and numbers off the varsity roster, and NOT the names he had in his scorebook'. Home scorekeeper (the AD, incidentally), claimed that he was never given the visitors scorebook. That was fun. (He had to add a second number to the scorebook a minute later, and the Home Coach wanted a second T.

You are correct; only one technical is given to a team for roster issues, regardless of how many changes need to be made. (10-1-2)

The second one was in a JV game 3 days later. Coach was completely understanding and even apologetic, because "it's my fault, I didn't give the scorekeeper the correct list". That game, incidentally, also happened to be the game where I gave out the ABS T (to the other coach).

0 T's so far this year. I give about 2 a year. As my eyes get worse, so does my hearing. Sorry to bore you.

I didn't give the t... but its a pretty good story. Got a last minute call to do a big varsity 730 tilt on a Friday night.. team a is a big AA school with a big ole loud mouth, unpopular to the refs coach, against an A team... since the A team was home.. turns into a 2 man game rather then a 3 man had it been at the AA school.. working with a big time ref.. this is my big break so I'm nervous as you could imagine... got a lot of tips from fellow refs who worked games for this clown... so I had a good idea how I was going to approach the situation if anything arose...

The game was a good up and down contest.. the whole first quarter and mid second quarter go without incident. Team A has a big 6'5 linebacking looking kid who gets the ball down the weak side post... I come ball side and team AA has a little guy come from behind and whack down on team A big man... I come up with the foul... I could have passed on it because it was ball/little arm but I blew and came out strong. Coach AA was not too happy(but he never is with officials)... I went and reported... went to my position as it was one and one...

The next thing I hear is TWEEEETTT technical foul... "But I wasn't talking to you... I was talking to him.. why can't he defend himself?" Turns out that as I walked away.. the coach said to no one in particular... "Go back to the freshman level" My partner was obviously not having any of this and whacked him right away... Now the coach is notorious for this type of behavior but I thought it was great that the vet took care of his rook.. now the question is..

If you would have heard what the coach said as the rook how would you have reacted?

There were no other incidents from him the rest of the game :)

That's a T in my game. Would probably be my easiest T of the year.

Last week I had quite the string of T's in my games (not all were given out by me)...

I don't call much HS ball, but I had 6 HS girls games for holiday tournaments last week. In my first game, we had to warn the coach at halftime for officiating from the sidelines too much. Two minutes into the 3rd quarter there was the best block of the game on his girl in the lane. He says, very loudly, "FOOO-ULLL!" WHACK. Easy one. Later on, my partner whacks a girl for arguing a foul call. Two T's in my first game. Oh, and after our second game, the coach was waiting for us in the hospitality room to talk to us about how inconstant we were during his game. We didn't have that, and a special report was filed to the state for his actions after the game (he is also the AD at his school... bush league).

My third game had a "fight" (one girl took a swing and hit the ball while the other girl called her a female dog). T'd both of them up and ejected the one for taking a swing. My partner later whacked a girl for throwing her arms in the air after a foul call on her.

In my sixth and final game, we had two different playing styles. One team pressed and played man, while the other team played a 2-3 sagging zone. Needless to say, the fouls were a little lopsided because of there being two different defenses run. Well, the assistant coach (who was more or less the head coach) who was losing in the foul count race couldn't figure it out. We warned her in the first half about complaining about the foul counts (they were 6-0 at the time). In between the third and fourth quarters, she came out of her huddle and screamed, "The fouls are 8 to 2!" Well that warranted a simultaneous whacking from two of us. She continued on about how terrible we are, and she was sent packing. The head coach apologized to us for her assistant's actions after the game...

What a week!

Agreed. WHACK!

Glad your partner took care of you. It burns me to no end when a partner will let a coach or player slide on something because they were saying it about me, especially when the partner feels the need to tell you all about it after the game or at half time. :mad:

T, as in team. Remember, your partner is on your team.

If he was talking to his player, it would be as a sub is coming in for him.

In a youth game? I do close to 100 travel tournament/middle school games a year and haven't given a single "T" out in the last 3 years...Highschool is a different story but I get a kick out of guys that give "Ts" in youth sports...

I give more in those games. High school coaches just behave better and actually respond to warnings.

Yep. I demand respect from coaches at any level towards any crew I'm working with and hold coaches accountable. I don't go looking for opportunities to whack coaches, but, when the situation requires it, I won't hesitate.

I suppose I should consider myself lucky that I don't run across many disrespectful coaches. I have worked in Maine and Montana primarily...two states full of nice coaches I guess! Either that or I don't give them reason to complain..lol..we all know that isn't the case!

For those of you not familiar with the term "ABS", it's a condition coaches have called "A$$ Brain Syndrome". :rolleyes:

I always knew that to mean "Accumulated BS."

But we know the other term works too. ;)

Peace

I am backward this year. The first two years I gave out two total. This year, 6 so far, 3 each in two different games, all to players. For pushing after dead ball, word exchange etc. four of them were double techs.

I had my first ever Flagrant and my first T for the year. T to HC for saying "You're a joke" after a foul call he didn't like.

Flagrant for a kid going up for a uncontested fast break layup where the defender (of the team that just couldn't keep the game close in the fourth) grabs the airborne player and throws him to the ground.

The lower the level the more T's. I think it's 2 things. They don't know better and they don't know how to listen when spoken to.

interesting story somewhat
 

coach has been chipping a little partners and I discuss among ourselves that their bench has run out of warnings....play happens at mid court block charge easy block call goes in favor of the bench out of warnings....one of the assistants still finds it necessary to comment about the fact that had we called things earlier this wouldn't have happened....Partner issues a T....as he is getting ready to admnister it, his little buddy assistant, says and I quote "you don't even know who said it, that is another one you got wrong today" which earned him one from me....I signal then say (pointing to the first assistant) he was the one that spoke first and now this one is for you....two T's by different partners in 6 seconds or less LOL... :)

After you called it, did you laugh? :D

Sorry I wasn't that specific in my question... if you were in my situation and you had heard the coach telling YOU to go back to the freshman league.. how would you have reacted to him? I had a couple of different ideas... obviously one that included a T

The only right response is a technical foul. Anything else proves the coach's point.

The fact that it was a personal comment is all you need to say. Good for you sticking that coach.

Peace

One of the veteran officials I deeply respect.. when he asked me what I would have done had I heard the comment rather then my partner hearing the comment I told him I would have whacked him. He told me it was a good option but then put this idea in my head... he said that for a person my age (early twenties), he thinks I would have gained a lot of respect from the coach, since nobody heard the comment in the gym since the gym was loud, if I had gone up to him and said " Coach, I will not tolerate comments like that. If I hear something like that again it will be a technical foul" and then jogged away... anybody like that response over a quick t?

No.

And then he would have continued with his BS and if you T's him for something else, not as personal then he would have accused you of taking his comments personally. I agree if no one hears the comments you have more leeway and you can say some things to make a point. But I have no problem with a T because he is trying to directly insult you. I started officiating in my early to mid-20s too and sometimes you have to take care of business. Because even if you said something like suggested, does not mean it would not escalate. And then on video you would be seen as being aggressive and out of line if the right eyes are watching. You might have been seen as baiting the coach with what you said. It would be a he said, he said situation and why deal with those facts.

Not sure if this applies to your area, but where I work we pass a lot of schools to work a game. You will be around a lot longer than most coaches and if you do not have his respect, you are not going to get it by having words with him after an inappropriate statement on his part.

Peace

I disagree and would have told this veteran to grow some integrity and the proverbial sac that is needed to adjudicate and make tough decisions when needed. If anything you would have lost respect. He's a coach, not your friend, and you are an official. He insulted you and made it very personal and demeaning. There is nothing that needs to be said to him except take a seat for this here T you so thoroughly deserve.

I'd rather give a T and second guess myself whether or not it was good than NOT give one and regret it later. I can always apologize for an undeserving T and learn and move on, but I set a bad precedent when I make myself a doormat.

Put it in the Book Mister!
 

In my 3rd year and have never given a "T" to a coach yet..I am a big believer of issuing a bench warning and putting it in da book and so far that has done the trick to get my message across.

Question: If I issue a warning, is it wrong for my partner to then have a chat with that coach? Does it look like partner is selling me out?

Maybe that's their way of never calling a T on a coach either.

And your rule citation for this is what?

None, he's just making it up as he goes along.

I know people that do this, I think it is unnecessary but people do this. It was something that came from college and was encouraged, but never at the NF level or at least in the rulebook or rulings. I am sure some states wanted this done.

Peace

No, not, never, don't say something like this, to a coach or a player. If, for some reason, you don't follow through when "again" comes up, you're toast. A comment like that is designed o test what you're made of. It was a personal comment, not "that call sucked." T the guy and be done with it. No need for it to be a T with a lot of histrionics attached. Just do it and walk away.

You'll forgive me but I find it pretty unusual that in your first three years no coach has done something that rises to the level of a T.

As to part two, did you ask your partners why they decided to go have a chat with the coach?

I agree... never use, "If you do it again, I'll penalize you..." It kind of reminds me when Joe Madden was ejected from a baseball game in 2007 for saying, "I love you" to an umpire:

Madden had it coming and he knew it, based on the interview afterwards.

I've used such phraseology, but only as an absolute last resort and very, very sparingly. And of course, I was prepared to follow it up.

About 3 years ago, I worked a game where the visiting coach was about the worst howler monkey I've seen. In retrospect, he should've been ejected from the game, but I decided to give it one last try before giving him the gate. (He had already been whacked in the first quarter and were were in the second quarter at this point.)

I walked up to him and told him, "You are really close to being ejected from this game. You don't want that and I really don't either. But it will happen if you don't knock it off."

At this point he shut it down completely. He pretty much stopped coaching at this point, too. He got relieved of his duties shortly thereafter. Still, my partner and I both told ourselves later that he really had it coming and we did him a favor that he really didn't deserve.

When the R meets the coaches, we take the book to the coach and say " Coach are these your players for tonight and are their numbers correct?"

They almost always say "yes". Case closed.

I mark through the remaining spaces and write down how many players are listed. I then take the book to both coaches and have them verify their players, numbers and starters. If they are satisfied I have them initial at the bottom.

All of this (book checking and verification) is local.

Back when I officiated in TN, we took the book back to the other side of the court and verified every number on the floor and ensured that the book was perfect.

Now, I count up the total number of players and only concern myself if there are more warming up than there are listed in the book. It's on the coach if there's an error beyond this.

I like putting the responsibility on the coach, myself.

Same here. Similar to asking coaches if their players are properly and legally equipped. They say "yes" and I'm done with it. What happens beyond that is on the coach. I asked, he answered. He assumes the risk now, not me.

He assumes the risk whether I ask him or not.

Not everything is local, some things are personal. I do this but no mandate from anyone to do this. I also do this and make sure the coach reviews this so they can correct any silly mistake. And fortunately in the last few years that I have been doing this, I have prevented several Ts that would have been given if we went with what was in the book. But not everyone does this or is even advocated by a group or evaluator. It was suggested by people I respect and thought I would try it. Been doing it ever since.

Peace

I agree. No one has ever told me to do this but I've got nothing else really going on at this time so if I can help make a cleaner start to the game I think it is worth while.

Eleven White, Twelve Blue ...
 

Same here in my little corner of Connecticut, in addition to checking for illegal, and duplicate, numbers.

Exactly JR..My Assignor likes us to use the "Put in the book" method. While not in the rule book, its a tool used as part of game management and in my games in my part of the world it has been effective in getting a change in behavior for the game. I have used it when a coach becomes persistant on complaining. If there is profanity or personal comments then Tag the coach.

Wow. Too bad they don't trust you.

And my understanding of the college practice Rut referred to was that it only applied to coaching box infractions.

...whatever works...I guess...if all your association's officials use this "method".

I personally do not like the "warning" in the book procedure.

This method creates inconsistency IMO. One official may warn, while another official may go right to the T. Coach may say, "Where is my warning?, I got one (or two) the other night."

Again, this may create an atmosphere where coaches may think they can go on and on untill they get that one warning...:mad:

Its kind of like the Stop hand signal you give to coaches but just step up by making it a formal warning and placed in the book..Like I said it has a psychological impact in that most times it does work:rolleyes:

I don't use the "talk to the hand" signal. I talk to the coaches in the same manner I expect them to speak to me.

I have to totally agree with you here. We have often been told to use the "Stop Sign" because it will justify any later action by us as officials. It does not work often (at least not for me it doesn't) and usually ends up in a T situation anyway. And if your assignor wants a "In the book" warning so be it as it is just as much a demand as the Stop Sign is for others.

Peace

Not that interesting!
 

I gave my first T tonight. I am a third year offical by the way. Girls freshman game, both coaches had been quiet all night. About 3 minutes left in the third quarter, B goes into full court press mode. A advancing slowly up court with heavy defensive pressure. A1 has her non-dribbling hand up in front of her chest, B1 is bumping into A1's arm causing her arm to go down. When B1 backs up A1's arm comes up. A1 is not pushing on B1 or committing a foul. In my judgement B1's contact is incidental. I have nothing. I reach 8 on my backcourt count and A's coach calls a timeout. B's coach comes out on the floor about 3 feet and is screaming at me to make a call. I called a T. She sit down and was quiet for the rest of the game.

You granted Coach B's time-out request even though Team A had the ball?

"I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and Write Myself a Letter" ...
 

Somebody should write a letter.

That was my first thought as well.......:eek:

Sounds like Coach A was ungrateful, considering the count was at 8.

Sorry I misspoke. A's coach requested a Tim that my partner ( lead) granted. I have edited my OP.

Thanks,

When It Absolutely, Positively Has To Be There Overnight ...
 

Too late. I've already sent my letter. And, as we all know, unlike the sandlot baseball games of my youth, there are no do-overs in basketball.

Did you give him one like this?

http://jorian.com.au/creative/wp-con.../Tiny-Tim1.jpg

When You're Having More Than One ...
 

I've got a sports jacket just like Tiny's, but mine says, "Schaefer".

Thank you for being a fan of HS basketball and please say hi to Devon! :)

Happened to me yesterday.
The official scorer missed a name while transcribing from the visiting teams book. The numbers were off. Glad I caught it so that we didn't have to deal with it later.

While it's definitely better to catch it sooner than later, this would not have been a T later, either.

I suppose you are right.

Sorry but this is baloney. Coaches aren't going to respect that, they are going to see you as a door mat because they'll know they just got away with one.

That's all well and good, just make sure you don't fall into the trap of thinking that T'ing up a coach makes you a weak official.

Whacked a player an 8th grade game last night.

During a dead ball for an OOB violation, he stuck his foot out to trip an opponent who was walking past him to line up for the throw-in.

Blatantly obvious. Idiot.

Easy T.

Did you consider a flagrant?

During a tournament last weekend I stopped by one of the other courts to watch a game. One of our older officials is working the game (61, just had knee surgery) and he is trail...really trail! He is at the 28 foot mark of the backcourt. So this girl drives to the basket, gets hit and no one calls it...coach walks onto the court to get on the trails ***, and the old guy blows his whistle, puts his hand in the face of the coach, looks at the other coach and says "give me a shooter"...never even signaled "T"..it was hilarious!

Had the trippee fallen, I definitely would've. But the trippee saw it coming in enough time limit the damage to nothing more than a brief stumble.

I am a first year official. I gave my first T early in December. I was the trail, opposite the table. Player A1 had the ball, dribbling down the sideline. He was guarded by B1. Player A2 sets a screen which B1 does not expect. B1 hits the screen hard, but not a foul. B1 is upset about the screen and as A2 begins to move away from where he set the screen, B1 tries to "scissor-kick" him! B1 kind of hopped in the air off one foot and tried to stomp A2 with the other. B1 totally wiffs, but I see it and call an unsporting tech. It was a weird situation because I have never seen a scissor-kick-stomp combo, plus the kick-stomp missed.

Was this the right call? If he made contact with the kick, should I have called a flagrant tech?

By rule, you should have called a flagrant technical on B1 for fighting. Whether he contacts or not is irrelevant. He tried. Good enough.