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-   -   UConn vs Marquette Fiasco (Letter to John Adams and Coordinators) (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/93376-uconn-vs-marquette-fiasco-letter-john-adams-coordinators.html)

Rich Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 869539)
Even thought I got my share of "Lah me"'s from Jurassic Referee, I really learned a lot from him, and I really miss him.

On the other hand, is Old School trying to make a comeback with a new username?
I've checked the IP address and it is not an IP address that has been used before on the board. I know that can be spoofed and perhaps he's posted while having a different IP address, but I have limited information.

We could play a game to guess where he's posting from -- I do have that information. :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 869543)
What you don't seem to understand is we did read your letter, and the substantive points were addressed.
1. It was a mistake. (we agree.).
2. It was a travesty. (we disagree)
3. They should be disciplined. (they probably will)
4. Newer officials would be fired (doubtful).

Whether they're disciplined by the Big East will have little bearing on whether they're on tv this weekend. Probably even zero bearing.

You do realize that a condescending form letter does NOT mean Adams even read your dissertation, right?
And I read through the entire thing, as well. I think he's preaching to the choir a bit here. We watch such a thing, wince, and think -- I will make doubly sure that doesn't happen in our games this season.

Officials screw up the rules under pressure. It happens. I watched a bowl game where the crew allowed a quarterback to gain yards after his helmet came off. Same crew had trouble remembering where to put the ball on a kickoff out of bounds (they eventually got it right).

Doesn't mean they are bad officials -- it means they made mistakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjones1 (Post 869544)
If you watch the video, I contend Stephens and Stuart knew something was wrong. Stephens initially takes a step backwards and Stuart is on the floor looking like he's going to kill the play, in my opinion.

Either way, what should of happened is count the bucket and go in the right direction. 5-1-3
The trail/tosser knew something was up. Seemed obvious to me -- he just didn't quite know how to handle it or was processing it when the play was finally killed.

BillyMac Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:48am
I'm Just A Sweet Transvestite From Transexual, Transylvania ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonMoore (Post 869526)
Each of you are anonymous as well.
Many Forum members remain anonymous, but not all, including a few that have posted in this thread. I used to post under my real name, and my real affiliation, but was told by my local IAABO board secretary to cease, and desist. I follow the rules, so I now post anonymously.

tjones1 Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 869549)
I can't believe he puts his cell phone number on an email response like this one.
Actually, in my opinion, I would appreciate it if the Mods removed that part of his e-mail or "X" it out -- Adam, Rich...

IUgrad92 Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:58am
DevonMoore,

Yes this crew screwed up. I would hope that no one feels worse about it than they do as I doubt there was any intent to favor one team over the other. Maybe 1, 2, or all 3 of these officials were beginning to exude a sense of arrogance on the court that goes beyond what it should have. Guess what, if that is true, they've been kicked in the pants... This is an embarrassing situation that I know I would give anything to not be associated with, and I believe that is true for these guys as well.

We're all human, mistakes big and small, will unfortunately occur. And like many other parts of society, name does outweigh ability at times. That's just the reality of it. They will be penalized, although probably not enough for your liking. I guarantee that none of these 3 officials will ever let a situation like this ever happen again in their games as long as they officiate....;)

MD Longhorn Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:03pm
I have a different take on this. Obviously, taking the points off the board was, by rule, incorrect.

At what point, however, is that incorrect removal of points from the board correctable?

Rich Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:06pm
I've deleted some things from this thread, including the email response from Adams.

I didn't see that he gave permission for his private email communication to be copied to this board, so I got rid of all of it.

DLH17 Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwv001 (Post 869503)
Funny, but I don't think Jim Calhoun made a single mistake during the game yesterday...
I've lost touch with that program....insert the youngster Ollie in there.

Perhaps that ehances my point! :D

bob jenkins Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoInZebra (Post 869538)
The learning point here, other than the obvious mis direction on OT jump ball is that when the ball became dead one official immediately recognized what had happened an the ball should have been given back to the team in control as the goaltending is an inadvertent whistle. Or am I missing something?
Since "everyone" was going the opposite way, the play stands. Award UConn 2 points for the GT, take the ball to the opposite end and let the other team inbound the ball running the baseline.

If play had been stopped before the "try" then take the ball to the same spot at the opposite end and let UConn inbound it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP (Post 869533)
Let's say I had my way and all HC's and AC's had to pass a thorough rules test in order to coach at the college level. Does this situation fall in the correctable error category? And if so, until what time could the officials correct it, if requested by the B HC? (And for those who don't know one of the two rule sets, the applicable rules read identical for this scenario.)
It's not a CE. It's a rules error.

DLH17 Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonMoore (Post 869501)
Again, some of you are more concerned about me and my intentions without regard to the CONTENT of the letter. My affiliation or intent is not the issue here. Supportive of the officials you suggest? Misapplication of rules by three FF officials is UNACCEPTABLE! How can you be supportive of that?

Instead of coming at me, I have yet to read one response that justifies their actions. Where's the accountability? You never know if this ONE game costs Uconn its place in the BE tourney or selection committee seeding...one never knows the IMPACT of our mistakes as officials.

Yes I beleive some work too much; how can they concentrate and maintain their intensity night in and night out? It is too hard.

It was not a simple error...as in judgement. It was a MISSED APPLIED RULE by 3 guys who are supposed to be the best. Karl Hess can't tell me anything at a future camp since he can't even line players up correctly and doesn't know the third article of rule 5. Has he even read the rule book? But hey, ALL of them are equally at fault. It was a TRAVESTY...ask UConn if THEY feel that way.

Regarding death sentence: most everyone on here does not use his/her real name because you really cannot say what you want without fear of retailiation in some form or fashion. Period.
I don't "support" mistakes, big boy. But, I DO support hard working officials that happen to make mistakes here and there. Mistakes happen all the time. It's the nature of the business. Get over it, coach, and move on. There is a ton of basketball left to be played.

HawkeyeCubP Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 869560)
It's not a CE. It's a rules error.
Similar to JRut's recent postulations in a different thread, I propose that one creates another. Am I the only one that sees a CE situation in there somewhere?

bob jenkins Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP (Post 869563)
Similar to JRut's recent postulations in a different thread, I propose that one creates another. Am I the only one that sees a CE situation in there somewhere?
There are 5 CEs. Which is this?

HawkeyeCubP Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 869564)
There are 5 CEs. Which is this?
Erroneously canceling a score. Lead official calls and signals goaltending. Then crew erroneously cancels the awarded score.

DLH17 Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonMoore (Post 869505)
DLH ~

This is part of the arrogance I referred to as well. It is NOT our job to evaluate what a coach does or does not. We are guardians of the game and despite everything, we MUST know the rules of the game...or not officiate the game!
Do you really think the 3 officials on that game don't know how to line players up to begin an OT period? Get real. It was not a mistake made out of ignorance. It was just a mistake, plain and simple.

I'll bet you a ice cold Pepsi that none of these officials have ever made that mistake at the collegiate level prior to that game nor will they do it in any game from here on out.

Why? Because they actually do "know the rule".

Are you that obtuse/naive, devonmoore?

Rich Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLH17 (Post 869567)
Do you really think the 3 officials on that game don't know how to line players up to begin an OT period? Get real. It was not a mistake made out of ignorance. It was just a mistake, plain and simple.

I'll bet you a ice cold Pepsi that none of these officials have ever made that mistake at the collegiate level prior to that game nor will they do it in any game from here on out.

Why? Because they actually do "know the rule".

Are you that obtuse/naive, devonmoore?
I'm pretty sure that's not the rule DevonMoore is referring to. He's referring to the rule that the goaltended shot should stand, not be wiped off.

He's right about that. That's an unfortunate error. However, one error isn't going to get guys fired who have huge bodies of work like these three do. We should all hope that entire bodies of work aren't eliminated by a mistake or we're one mistake away from losing our current gigs.

HawkeyeCubP Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 869542)
But threads have to serve some purpose -- you being entertaining won't last long, so I applaud the poster who tried turning this into a learning experience for others here. Maybe we can move in that direction.
Why, thank you, Rich. I prefer a slow clap.


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