Coach Player Misconduct
 

Sorry, but I found this after the thread was closed.

Rule 2-8-1

COMMENT: Unsporting tactics, in general, involve relationships.........It can also apply to the relationship of a player to teammates, and to the coach and members of the team. For example, profanity on the part of a participant, coach or member of the team is considered to be an unsporting act, whether or not the profanity is directed at any individual or is merely a means of "letting off steam."

This does seem to address the previous thread.

Rule Four, Definitions, Profanity ???
 

Good citation, however, does it define profanity? There's the rub.

I think any reasonable person can define profanity. I would say an F bomb is automatic, as would be SOB, GD. However other curse words may not illicit an automatic T.

I know that for me, I am probably going over to the coach and talking to him/her privately and quietly and letting him/her know that I heard what was said, and that the next time there will be consequences for it. Unless it is so blatently bad that it has to be addressed immediately.

This a little thing, but this is actually from the case book 2.8.1

It is nice to see the main issue in that thread specified in black and white.
And yes, the f word is profanity, no matter where you live.

Yea, I searched it on my phone app, doesn't specify case and rule when you do this.

I agree that it's pretty much profanity everywhere, but I disagree that it's "automatic."

Problem with "reasonable" is that everyone's version of it differs. In fact, mine differs from yours in this case and I suspect we're both reasonable people. I'd say F-bomb is the closest to automatic there is, but there's no such thing as automatic. If said quietly, at one's self, I might let it go. SOB and GD is nothing to me unless it's directed at me.

SOB and GD are absolutely nothing unless directed at me. Why would they be?

I wasn't trying to rehash the old thread, just providing a citation that addresses this.

Like I said before, just because I have a religious feeling I do not feel it is right for me to put than on others. Not everyone believes in God or not everyone thinks other words are over the top as well. If they are directing things at me then that is a different story. But you do not have to curse to get in trouble with what you say to opponents or officials IMO.

Peace

Do your standards re language change at all when officiating a game between two private Christian schools?

Nope. And it doesnt seem to change for players either. ;)

One of my two career (25+ years) coach ejections was the head coach of a Baptist Bible high school. I still remember my partner deadpanning after the game, "That wasn't very Christian behavior, was it?"

Because one thing leads to another. If a player called another player a fag or queer, it's not directed at you. Should it be a T? I think so.

There are many words that should be "T"ed up. If you allow one, you have to allow all of them.

If you allow none, the kids will play by the rules.

This was my point in the other thread and has always been my stance. If you set the standard, the kids will hold to it because they want to play.

My situation is different than all of yours (I think) in that my main league mandates we follow that rule. Obviously if a player who suffers an injury swears there will be leeway and it's not as though we go looking for it. I tell kids in the captain's meeting "If you do it on the floor and we know who said it, we deal with it. If you do it on the bench we don't have to know who said it." As I said in the earlier thread, it has cut down on a lot of language that could be considered offensive.

In terms of what words/phrases are penalized, simple: we asked our supervisors and administrators in our meetings at the start of the season. Some didn't need definition (f***, s***) and others were clarified (SOB fell into the "T" category, by the way). GD raised a number of questions due to the religious connotation. It eventuallly fell into the T category after a mini-vote.

Another that overwhelmingly went into the T category - and the support was heavy among Black officials - was use of the N-word, even between teammates. We acknowledged its use in music, popular culture and the fact its considered "mainstream" in many communites but for many if not all of the officials none of that changed the word's historical use and purpose.

Some players have been thoughtful enough to quietly ask me "am I allowed to say (fill in the blank)?" My answer is always, "if you need to ask me, it's better you don't say it." So they don't.

Nope.

Peace

I'll Take Famous Quotes for One Hundred, Alex ...
 

Reminds me of this:

I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust them. (Jim Valvano)

What if the teammate calls one a pu$$y? Or says, "Stop being a mark!" Something tells me most officials have no idea of certain slang or language and their actual meaning. I have heard that much more than I can ever think of hearing s player call someone a fag or a queer.

Well because that word is used often, I simply address it by giving a little lecture. For one most people around them have no problem with the usage of that word. That usually stops the entire time I hear that word. I do that because giving a T does nothing to stop it, but telling them it is not acceptable and why does. I look at these situations the same way as when you have a mouthy kid that does not listen to you, telling the coach usually changes the behavior. If it doesn't then we have the option to use a T. I just will almost never treat conversation between teammates the same way I would to opponents.

Peace

What if they "thoughtfully and quietly" asked you ..."am I allowed to say you suck.";)

...for me, fellow officials...IT IS NOT WHAT THEY SAY...IT IS HOW THEY SAY IT!

Yep. T'd a kid earlier this year for saying "Crap." That one word. On the surface, that sounds extreme, but here's the story. He slipped and went to the floor. Traveling.

He screamed it to the rafters. "CRAP!!!"

It was too much, in my opinion.

This is key to the whole situation as far as I am concerned....

Kid misses a layup or commits a foul and says something in a low voice that I happen to pick up on....just a quick word of warning to watch the language.

Yelled out for the world to hear....I have to deal with that.

I agree, but some words are not going to even draw much warning if said to themselves in anger. And certainly not saying "crap."

Peace

Yeah, I couldn't imagine doing anything more than snicker a little at a kid screaming out "crap."

I guess that is inappropriate if you believe in God. ;)

Peace

I remember getting a tongue lashing when I was 10 yrs old from my mom for saying "crap". Never got a reprimand from an official when I played hoops though.

Did that T lose the game for the kids' team? Typical ref. :D

I got carded once for the "fr" word, not knowing that in that area, it had the exact same meaning as the fudge word. I was dumbfounded until my AC informed me of that colloquialism. We had just let in a soft goal to a lousy team and I yelled at all of us to stop "goofing off".

It really had nothing to do with the word. He could have yelled "shoot."

It was the volume coupled with the burning stare in my direction and the wild gesture.

10-3-6.e A player shall not disrespectfully address.......... an official or gesture in such a manner as to indicate resentment.

It was all there. To be totally honest this was probably the straw that broke the camel's back. The whole game had been a series of rolled eyes and
"Oh, my God!" on a lot of calls. All this from a team who was quickly buried by the opponent and certainly one of the worst VB teams I ever saw. This was also the 5th foul and 2nd T of the game for this player. First T was for shoving an opponent after being fouled.

Well, you provided more detail. I thought the "Crap!" was because he missed the shot, not because he blamed you for missing the shot. :)