"That is my partner's call."
 

Do people find this comment to be seen as throwing your partner under the bus if you say this to a coach? Or do you see this as a way to explain a call that you are not directly involved in?

An email got me thinking and I want opinions from others.

Peace

I've had supervisors who say they don't like that statement.

They prefer "that play was right in front of my partner" or "I didn't get a good look".

They feel that saying "it was my partner's call" is the equivalent of saying "it's not my call/area" and means you saw something obvious but decided not to blow your whistle. (of course this applies to no-calls, there are no discussions if my partner actually makes a call).

I tend to tell coaches:

"(Partner's name) is right there and had the best look at it."

"(Partner's name) will tell you what he saw (or didn't see) as soon as he can."

Saying "that's my partner's call" to me means that you are in disagreement with the call. A coach can sense that and will use it to divide the crew.

I prefer not to mention my partner.

"I can't call that from here." or "I'm not looking way over there."

In my opinion saying that could be taken by a coach to mean, "I agree with you, I'm not the one who called/didn't call that." I prefer "He had a great look, he was right there."

I usually state this positively instead of negativiely: "I was looking at xx and xx" (be specific).

I agree with what has been said. When I coached I hated the "I can't call that from here or that isn't my call" That always made me feel like I saw it and choose not to call it. It also made me feel they were selling their partner out. I much prefered the "i'm didn't see it as I'm not watching that area.

Well I have said that phrase in some context previously, but usually say more like, "I have no idea what happened on that play, not looking there." I also do not explain calls I do not see or did not have a whistle on either. I have no problem telling a coach to speak with the calling official for a better or clearer explanation when they get a chance.

On Saturday I have a game where I called a foul from the Lead where the ball when in the basket and a teammate of the fouled team went up and touched the ball. Well of course I did not see the violation at all but knew the player was up on the rim. My partner comes in and calls a offensive BI and gives me information before I go to the table. Well I wave off the basket and then report the foul. Well the coach complains to me as I go table side and I tell him flat out, "Coach that is his call all the way, I am not looking up there or cannot really make that call from my position." I did tell him, "I think he touched the ball but my partner will gladly tell you what he called when he gets a chance." The coach said almost nothing else to me and later my partner did explain his call and we moved on. Not saying that was the best thing to say, but I could not think of anything else to really say for that kind of play as it literally was not my call to make. Otherwise I would have said something totally different. Not saying I was right, just did not want to explain something I clearly did not see.

Peace

My line is usually -- "We've got two officials looking there, I'm looking at (insert something here)."

Coaches, like fans, follow the ball. I think they think we do, too.

I can see where other officials would say this is throwing a partner under the bus. I think it does single out the calling official and brings more focus on them.

Short reply: "ask Rut"
Long reply: "ask Rut, it was his play, he can answer your question"

After all that, I can hear the bus backing up for a second run at partner :D

"We communicated, offense committed BI, no basket, 2 Ft's"

My answer would be: "Coach, we got together and talked about it and this is OUR ruling."

I like this too. Of course it also depends on what the complaint is about. Coaches usually complain to the official that is nearest, no matter what. What can you possibly say when, as lead in two man, the coach is screaming at you about the ten second count? Sometimes there is no substitute for a shoulder shrug. Or, better yet, a brief, incredulous look.

"What is this strange, coachese language which you are speaking?"

Is the bus backed up because you feel it is or because of my partner? I told my partner what I said and he did not bat an eye. I would not have have been upset. Coaches need to know that we all do not call the same things and that expectation is silly.

I think sometimes we worry too much about what others think of us honestly and especially coaches.

Peace

If that is your perspective, why did you ask? Your question implies otherwise

I asked because I was conflicted with an email that was sent out. I know we all have different perspectives on what we say and how we say things. I did not say it was going to totally change things or what I say. I feel that we have to tell coaches the truth and not act like we all are equally watching the same things.

Peace

JRut,

For consideration:

Do you think your partner could have done something more like an NBA mechanic and had a whistle as soon as the offense committed BI? I think the whistle becomes the clear indicator that your partner now had additional information that would be completely his call.

It certainly means that the calling officials will have a discussion as to what they both have rather than just coming in and saying "I have offensive BI"

Just thinking out loud, but I like this idea and hopefully I would be able to use it properly.

Okay, a coach doesn't necessarily like to hear the rationale, "That wasn't in my area, coach." After all, he probably doesn't know anything about PCA's. And he's just ragging on you as the nearest representative of the crew on the floor, either expressing frustration over something called or missed, or lobbying for future favoritism -- neither of which have a high likelihood of meriting our serious consideration (yes, there are exceptions to that). Therefore, what often works is to just somehow fill in the time until his attention is diverted to the next play occurring. My latest favorite goes something like this:
Coach: How could your partner call that over there. Didn't you see that?
Me: Coach, I understand you disagree with that call over there, is that correct?
Coach: That's correct.
Me: I understand.
Coach: :confused:
Me: :) ... and on to the next play myself.
By that time the coach's attention is diverted to the next play, and if he wants to continue the point, which he probably won't (when I was in his place my memory was about as short as my tallest player--not very) and if he wants to rag on my partner for his part in his perceived debacle he'll at least wait for him to come around or, more likely, just drop it.
Kinda a perverted "Verbal Judo" tactic, but it works.

My partner who was the trail made the call immediately. We did not really get together honestly. I asked him if he had BI before I went to the table. The communication took a couple of seconds. It was obvious to everyone he made a call or that a call was made. I just echoed the call at the table before reporting.

Again I am not saying that what I said to the coach could not be perceived by some as wrong, just trying to figure out why some statements are OK but we are saying the same basic thing. It was obviously his call to everyone watching and we worked together to get it right. I even gave the coach the opportunity to ask him when he got the chance. I will think of saying something different in the future, but do not see why this is over the top an other statements are not seen the same way. Just wondering mostly.

Peace

It seems like every year there is some new approach to dealing with coaches in a way that doesn't divide the crew.

The overall statement that "it was my partners call" has taken on the meaning that "coach doesn't like the call, but hey it was my partners messed up call, I had something different or I thought it was a no-call"

There is a movement for referees to be mindless autotans and therefore we should be saying less.

I sometimes like....he was in a much better position to see that play than you or I coach.

I have actually had a coach say:

to my partner: "HEY, GET HIM OFF OF HIM!!!"

to me: "You saw that, but I know you can't call it from here."

I didn't say anything, but he was right.

we used to live in world of sticks and stones may break my bones but word will never hurt me. now the world hinges on every word chosen looking to hang u with every possible meaning. Now we have to choose our word carefully even if what we would normally say means the same thing. hate this world sometimes

I am convinced this is the bigger issue, not what we actually say. I guess I would like to be told the truth, not lied to or mislead. Obviously I am not a coach and I like the truth.

Peace

Ha, got the same email.

Since it's the heat of the moment and a coach wants to vent at the nearest official, I usually say, 'Coach, he had a better look than us( nicer than "hey, I have the same s"#tty view you do"), you can ask him when he's over here.

Later, invariably, coach has moved on and never asks partner. Psych 101 to me.

Answers will vary depending on coach's attitude.

Neither can you coach ( I say to myself)

I have used, "Coach, I didn't have any better look than you did, I'd only be guessing."

It worked for the moment.

I know this is something that some officials say, but how does the official that makes this statement know this? I personally put this in the same category as an official that says "Coach, we are going to work hard for you tonight" during the pregame conference.

My personal preference, but I don't say either of those things simply because I don't know that either one of them will be or are true.

Well, in a 2-man crew that would be easy to know :D

I understand what you are saying, and don't necessarily disagree with it. IMO, it's still better for the crew for each official to "stand up" for our partners during the game, even if one or both may be guys we have never worked with in the past and/or know very little about.

Telling a coach "my partner does a great job of getting into the best position to see plays in his area" shouldn't be a stretch for each of us to convey, esp at the varsity level. If it's not necessarily true, the coach will find out for himself soon enough when he gets his 10 seconds of Q&A with your partner(s).

At that point, we have to let our partners live and die with their call.

My two cents.
 

H.S. basketball coaches do only one thing, and that is watch the ball and only the ball; if the ball goes ten rows up into the stands they are watching the ball and only the ball.

99.999% of all high school basketball coaches have absolutely no concept of Primary Coverage Areas. H.S. basketball coaches do not know nor do they care to know about PCAs and the fact that more than 95% (and that figure is my educated wild a$$ guess, it could be higher) of the time one official is watching ball and one official is not watching the ball in a two-man officiating crew.

I have absolutely no qualms telling a coach that I was not watching the ball because it was not in my PCA and if my partner did not put air in the whistle it means he did not see any infraction of the rules. Telling the coach that your partner had a better look at the play than you tells the coach that you were watching the ball too. I know where the ball is but I am not a ball watcher because I have enough problems watching for horse manure happening in my PCA.

The principal behind three-man crews is to have two officials watching the ball at the same time in certain situations. And still PCAs prevail meaning even with three officials, only one official should be looking at the ball and the only other person looking at the ball will be the coach.

I remember many many years ago when Penn State had just joined the Big 10, Bobby Knight was still the HC at Indiana, and we had not gone to rotation mechanics for three-man crews. Indiana was at PSU and there was a sideline throw-in late in the game and it was a close game (I can't remember who was making the throw-in but it was near the Division Line and an IU player got loose for what should have been a break away layup but a PSU player grabbed his jersey (a definite IPF, now a Flagrant 1 PF). There was no foul call and Sam Licklighter (from Ohio was the closest official) took a tremendous amount of heat from both Knight and the press for not making the call. If one had taken the play and drawn the coverage on a black board, the officials covered the play exactly has it should have been and no one would have been in a position to see the foul if they had run that play one million times. It other words, doggie do do happens.

MTD, Sr.

As usual, DeNucci drops in with some gold nuggets.

Keepin' it real. Love it.