Post game conference
 

It's rare that we have a post game conference.

I think they are a good idea. I am now in my 13th year of refereeing and I have tried to have a post game conference a couple of times.

We talked about certain plays, in one, we had a BC call on a rebound, I was the C and didn't see any control before the BC. I asked partner about it and partner let me know that he knew the rule and had the correct call.

In another game with a different partner, we had a Blocking call made when the offense player turned and knocked down the defender. I asked the partner if he understood that no time or distance was needed for the defender to take position with the offensive player with the ball. He said, no the defender had to give the player space. I explained different and he said the defender moved into the O player.

I was trail, he was C and Lead was coming to the play and we both thought it was a player control foul, but no we were incorrect.

At any rate, partners do not want to talk about the game when it is over. Shame.

Does anyone else do post game conferences? Experiences?

I try to brign up things I might have gotten wrong or was not sure about.

I had one partner call a player control foul on a defender....confused me completely, fortunately, I had the shooter. I did forget to talk to him about it after the game, it was a busy night. Sometimes I do 2 games in 1 night.

I'm usually the junior guy, but not shy. So, depending on the crew, I will initiate a conversation if no one else does.

I like to talk about certain calls, impressions on plays, rules interps if applicable, and what they thought of the game, issues with any of my calls, problems encountered, how we handled players and coaches, etc.

Usually only lasts a few minutes, but I find it worth it as I can still learn a lot.

I like to ask my partners if they have anything to discuss. However, i get a little annoyed when this turns into an open critique on only me. I like constructive feedback but some guys really suck at it. I especially get annoyed when its someone who I didnt feel did a very good job themself. This is probably what keeps guys from wanting to discuss the game.

I've honestly got no problem. I figure if they don't want to discuss things, they won't get better. That either means they don't need to, or they'll be stuck in low level games til they get it.

I always talk about the game afterwards and in the locker room. I can hardly think of a time when we don't talk about the game. Now it might be more extensive with some partners, but there is always a question about a play or a situation with a coach or other unusual situations. It is just what we do in my experiences. Some times there is a lot more talk than others, but it is never silent after the game.

Peace

Try starting the post game by asking each official about which call they liked the best, and the call they liked the least.

I had a similar situation during halftime of a college game once. We had put a few too many unnecessary whistles into the game, there was no flow, and the teams were getting frustrated as a result. Went in at halftime, asked my partners if there was anything we could have passed on. The room was silent. So I took the initiative to say that I had 2 or 3 whistles that I wish I hadn't had. We started to review these plays and next thing you know we are having some positive communication about how we could improve things.

The second half went much better.

The post game was really good in that most of our discussions were about the improved call selection.

I have used this approach numerous times and it gets people talking about themselves - and face it, referees like to talk ;) . Each official gets to direct the discussion rather than singling out one person.

post game is just as important for learning as a pre game. You are missing out if you don't post game imho.

+1

Post Game "Likes"
 

Post game discussions often become agenda items for the next game's pregame. Post game gives us ideas of what to especially look for on video the next day. Post game is particularly significant if there's a fill-in member of the crew who can help identify things we're accustomed to doing that aren't really good. Post game debriefing is better than everyone dressing as fast as possible and scurrying off site as if happy to get out of there.

Wow, there's a lot in this post.

Why are most of your partners critiquing you?

How much experience do you have? When you ref lower level games, do you stay and watch the varsity level? I did for years.

I would sit and say " Why didn't they call that?", "Why did they call that?"

I learned and it helped me become a better official. I also want the more experienced officials to tell me what they think, if I missed anything and I can learn from that.

I am in my 13th year, we never stop learning and someone else has a different view of what happened on every play.

On one play with a junior partner, ( 2 man ) I clearly saw the defender lean into the air born shooter, he called a charge. I am not sure what he saw, but it was his call, not mine.

Post Game Conference ...
 

Very common post game conference "ice breaker" here in my little corner of Connecticut, especially among veterans, both varsity, and subvarsity, is, "So what did you see?", or, "Got anything to help me out?.

I prefer to have them, but it really depends on the partner.

While my previous JV game's partner was eager to get out of there, I asked the varsity officials (two man) if I could do halftime and postgame with them. They graciously included me, and it was one of the best experiences I've had this season.

I watched the game from one end line, near the locker rooms. Between the first and second quarters, the umpire came to me and said we'll be talking about one particular call at halftime, and how advantage/disadvantage plays a role. (It certainly helped that the possession arrow was pointing in my direction.) At halftime, we talked about a few plays, they asked my opinion of the goings-on, and the umpire threw in some valuable feedback and constructive criticism of my work.

Second half, the R has an easy PC foul. A fan whines that the defender was "under the basket!" The R looks at me and says, "will you tell that guy that's a college rule?!" Later, a few from that contingent start directing their objections toward me. I could just grin.

Bottom line: Ask the vets for inclusion. Those that appreciate passion will let you in. Two years ago, my JV partner did this, and I joined the lot. Two weeks ago, I worked a JV game, and that same partner had the varsity one after me.

What ??? Me ???
 

Many, many years ago, way back in the late twentieth century, I, as a young, inexperienced official (with dark hair), was watching a state tournament game from the bleachers. At halftime, the referee, one of our best, and most experienced, officials, motioned to me to come up to the locker room. I was listening to the the halftime conference when the referee asked me, "So, BillyMac, what did you see?". I was astounded that such a respected, and experienced, official, would ask this of a young whippersnapper. I actually had something to contribute regarding a throwin that didn't touch anybody on the court, that was missed by both officials due to some poor communication.

That's the way it used to be around here, everybody helping everybody else to become a better official. Not so much anymore. Now it seems to be every man for himself.

Try these questions (some mentioned before) to get things stared:

- you guys/girls got anything?
- what did you see on (name a specific play/call)?
- I probably didn't handle (name a spacific play/call of yours) very well...what did you think?
- any calls you would like to have back?

These help me get things started if my partners don't seem particularly inclined to discuss the game.

Too many JV guys are in their cars before the echo of the final horn has faded. Always be learning. I was never refused an audience if I asked for it. But the key is to listen, not to critique. To see how advice given after your game was employed in their game. Post-game discussions almost always occur unless the "in it for the money guys" are on the game with you.

One of my biggest pet peeves are the JV or prelim guys leave right after the game. Some do not even get out of the clothes they officiated in and are in the car before the game following starts. That is how I learned from veterans was to stick around and talk to them and learn from what they did on the floor. And then these guys are the first to complain why they are not moving up, but do not do the things it takes to learn from others. I cannot imagine a game without us talking about some play afterwards on some level.

Peace

Yup. The best post-games involve a sandwich and a beer. I love talking about the game and sometimes it's nice to put the game aside for 20-30 minutes while you shower, change, etc. and pick up the conversation at the restaurant / watering hole you head to afterwards.

When I was coming up if the Varsity crew had officials on it that I respected I always stayed around until at least through halftime. I would go in with the varsity crew listen to their halftime thoughts then grab my bag and leave.

We have made it a requirement for all new officials to stay through halftime of the varsity and listen in on the halftime discussion 3 times during the season. There is a mechanism that we use to track this.

It is not a huge commitment over the season, and it helps in the development and retention of those who want to take it seriously.

I like this a lot.

I assume you're talking about the probationary member observation report function on RefTown. Have yet to see any stick around for the varsity games I have done so far.....in a couple instances the JV officials didn't even come to the locker room to let us know their game was finished. Do you have a mechanism to close the loop?

Have a Merry Christmas my friend - see you next week!

Here, everyone dresses in the same locker room. The loop closes itself.

Do we not have any officials who are also simply fans of the game and enjoy watching? No matter what the level, I almost always stay to watch a game (or two) after mine simply for the game itself. If there is opportunity to confer with the officials of that game, that's an added perk.

Perhaps you could contact them a day or two prior to the game and ask if they would like to stick around and have them make some observations on your game?

The officials are supposed to stay and at least come in to give that information as per the Commish. If that is not the case, here is what I do for a game that starts at 7:30p, we head for the floor prior to 7:15p.

It is not their job, although it is a professional courtesy, to tell me when they are done. They may have circumstances that require them to be elsewhere. Even in the instances that the officials do come in, they typically don't know how much time was put on the clock. In most situations the clock & game management just put the minimum of 15 minutes on the clock.

Just like when game mgt says they will come get us at 3 minutes. We are supposed to be on the floor at 3, so I will ask for them to get us at 4. But it is on me/us to be on the floor at 3.

I am responsible for my actions, not the actions of others.

mine is "did i do anything to screw u guys up?" or it i feel i did a decent job that night, "what do you have for me?"

That's the way it used to be around here, everybody helping everybody else to become a better official. Not so much anymore. Now it seems to be every man for himself.

great point Billy. I have noticed that fellow officials are quicker to tear down others than to build up. trying to make themselves look better somehow. Afraid they will lose some games to newer guys or something. very discouraging. We are the only team members we have, so it should be everybody helping everybody.
__________________

I'm not sure how it is in other parts, but often times guys working the JV games are also Varsity Level officials. I never assume when I am working a varsity game the crew that just got done isn't capable of replacing me. I know in some cases, we have JV crews that prefer working the earlier games because it allows them to get home to their families. It's possible that some officials who leave early, can't commit additional time because of other responsibilities.

Wanna hear something that will stun you? I was told by a senior official. I was not allowed in the locker room if is was not a game I was officiating. :eek: So do not come back into the locker room at half time of the Varsity game. Take your bag with you when you leave after your game.
If I was allowed in the locker room, they wanted me to learn from listening. A lot of times they never talked about the game they were officiating. Thus a waste of my time. Geeez

I have never seen, nor heard of, any officials being disallowed from the locker room of any game, even if they didn't work that day at that gym.

That's ridiculous. I've only heard of that from D1 supervisors.

I wish we had more JV officials who were that interested in sticking around. I would welcome it at every HS game I officiated.

After my game, I wanted to stay for at least one period of the varsity game to see how a crew of three worked and how they positioned themselves and such. I ended up staying until halftime.

My next game is a freshman game and game one of a triple-header. At present, I'm undecided on staying to watch a quarter of the JV game.

Trust me. I still have the email to prove it.
I do not see much interaction between JV officials and the Varsity officials. And if there is conversation, then it usually does not pertain to basketball. So I carefully pick and choose if I talk basketball plays/rules with officials that either follow my game or preceed my game. I also try to chat with my partners after each game. i would say about 1/2 will take part in discussion.

Note The Use Of The Word, "Should" ...
 

From an article in our most recent local board's newsletter:

The four officials at a high school game site should work together as a team. Varsity officials should arrive at the game site no later than the beginning of the second period of the junior varsity game. Junior varsity officials should stay and observe the varsity game until at least halftime of the varsity game in order to learn by watching experienced officials. Many varsity officials try to show up for the beginning of the junior varsity game, and many junior varsity officials will often stay to observe the entire varsity game. The overlap will insure that an official is available if one of the officials at the site becomes ill, or injured. The board expects veteran officials to observe and offer constructive appraisals, with specific suggestions, to less experienced officials. The board expects less experienced officials to seek out, and ask for input, from more experienced officials. Partners are expected to offer constructive appraisals to each other. "So? What did you see out there?” is an easy way to start a post-game conversation.

Agree, and I do the same. The only time it can be a problem is if things are way behind schedule and we don't know when our game will start.

If there is a game following ours, I've always made it a point to let those officials know ours is done and how much, if any time was put on the clock, although usually they haven't gotten that far by the time we're out of the court area. At least it gives them a frame of reference.