1 Rule Change
 

Having just joined and actually being more of a coach than an official I thought I would throw this question out to all of you.

If there was a rule in the game that you would like to see added, removed or changed, what would it be?

For me it would be the fumble rule, nothing more unnatural than seeing a kid take 3-5 steps with a ball because they cannot hang on to it--it is worse yet when it is after they pick up the dribble and try to make a pass and fumble it.

It seems to reward kids for having bad hands as you can get a bit of an advantage with it when it happens.

I know everyone has their own rules that they do not like, just wondering what some of yours are

Switch the arrow as soon as the throw in starts for an AP throw in.

I have two...

*If A-1 touches/taps the ball from B's frontcourt to backcourt (assuming team control is already established), B-2 doesn't have to wait until the ball touches the backcourt's floor to be legal to play.

*Allow a team the freedom to review video anytime it wants.

Get rid of the 3 second rule

Portion of the correctable error rule: If a team is erroneously denied free throws the correctable error timeframe automatically ends if they subsequently score a field goal.

Only players on the court can request a time out!

I like changing that part of the correctable error rule, it seems like a double penalty for the foul, they score on the inbounds and then get a chance to shoot FT's when corrected, good call on that one

This could make for some interesting changes in defensive and offensive strategies. How about just making the count start when a player catches the ball in the paint?

This would also force some changes to the way the game is coached. Do you think some of these kids are smart enough to follow their coach's wishes during late game situations?

Can you explain your rationale? A1 is given 1 and 1 when it should be two free throws. A1 misses the first one, A2 gets the rebound and scores. The horn sounds, the officials realize it should have been two shots for A1, but he can't shoot them because A2 scored. Is that what you mean?

The defense is supposed to get penalized for committing fouls. If a team makes a good move and is fouled AND is good enough to get the rebound, should the defense get a break for the foul they committed?

I would say a rule change that penalizes the inferior team is not a good rule change. However, I will reserve my final judgement until I hear what BNR's rationale is.

I would like to have someone from both schools be responsible for being the uniform police. Or make it to where anything we see is a technical - one for each infraction throughout the game. That would force the coaches to make sure their kids wear the uniform the right way.

I am all for whatever rule changes reduce the possibility for inconsistency from crew to crew, association to association, state to state and sea to shining sea. :D

Timeouts during relaxed action only.

Maybe I phrased it wrong, if team a commits a foul that should have been a 1-1 for example, the officials and score keepers are late communicating and they take the ball out of bounds. Team B now has a chance to score on the inbounds, and when the play is over, they have a chance to go back and shoot FT's. Team B essentially ends up with 2 opps to score instead of 1

Despite the published situation to the contrary, that is actually already the rule.

Not a chance. There is a reason it was added and it was a good reason. Intelligently applied, it is a good rule.

The "strap" that hangs over the basket is inbounds.

1. Players on the floor call time outs ... not coaches.
2. Alternating possessions. Let 'em jump. I don't like it when the offense exposes the ball and/or the defense makes a good play to tie it up it and the outcome is determined by an arrow.
3. Play the release, not the rim on free throws.

And if you really want to know ... I hate the three point line, the restricted area in the NCAA and in the NBE the defensive three second.

I think that's it.

It could be just me being dense, but I'm not picturing what you're talking about.

Your recap is my rationale :D If the officials hadn't erred Team A would not have scored FG. I just don't like the feel of a team having a throw-in when then they should have been shooting 1-and-1, they hit a three, the horn sounds, now they hit 2 free throws. A 5-point play b/c of an officiating error.

I just feel that if they score on a possession that should never have occurred then it is redundant to then go back and give them some free throws.

(and please, no one re-hash the old "the other team's coach should have spoken up" crappola argument :) )

Get rid of 95 percent of the uniform rules that NFHS passes off on officials. Also in a perfect world, I wouldn't mind the shot clock and/or restricted area.

I would extend correctable errors to include giving the wrong team the ball on the throw-in.

1. Shot clock added at least for varsity contests.
2. Have coach unsporting rules interpreted and applied as they are in FIBA.

I'm not opposed to the idea of going to actual jump balls on held balls, as well.

+1

It's hard enough getting all the other rules memorized. I hate having to worry about the stupid color of a headband or where a logo appears.

I like #2… LOVE #1 & #3!!

I would allow iPads (and the like) for bench coaching. Maybe not to play video - some schools with good cash flow and/or adept AV departments vs. schools without could be at (significantly) greater advantage. But to use as a whiteboard, no problem.

I like this one, but I would change the expiration on it to a change of possession.

#1...great idea.

#2....your rationale doesn't make sense. If the defense had really made such a good play, they'd have stolen the ball rather than had shared control with the offense. The defense (and offense) really made a 50/50 play. A jump ball might be a good result anyway, but not for the reason you give.

#3....it isn't broke, don't fix it. For many HS officials, this gets officiated a lot better.

Have These Guys Ever Officiated A Girls Middle School Game ???
 

How has Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. been able to post under the name of both ref3808, and HawkeyeCubP? Does he think that just because he's a moderator, that he can take over anybody's Forum username, and post under that username?

Never In A Million Years ...
 

Great rule change. However, as long as coaches sit on the NFHS rules committee, the only way that they will give up this right is if you pry it from their cold, dead hands.

As somebody that just worked a couple of girl's 7th grade games with a thousand held balls, I still would be in favor of this.

In the boys games, we in this area see very few held balls so I think an occasional jump would not be a big deal.

Go to the NBA style of inbounding the balls at the end of the quarters based upon home/visitor and ditch the arrow I say.

Take That Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. ...
 

No more jump balls. Not to start the game. Not to start overtimes. None. Period. No more jump balls. Flip a coin. Or give it to the visitors first. Or give it to the home team first. Or have the captains play rock, paper, scissors. It doesn't matter, as long as you do away with all jump balls. No more jump balls. Any questions about where I stand on this issue?

+1,000,000

Yes, it would change how the game is coached. I would rather have the kids looking and listening for their coach than me. Since all the officials are mainly focused on the kids on the court, we would see and hear them much easier then their coach. I don't hear as well as I use to and I sometimes don't hear the request.

Coaches and officials have to pass a rules test with 90% (maybe 80% because they word some of the questions stupidly) to be able to officiate. Timed test. 2 goes at it. If you don't pass, you don't coach or officiate.

The safety strap or support wire used to move the baket up and out of the way when not in use. No one can use it to their advantage, and if we're supposed to keep our eyes donw for rebounding fouls, it's hard to see if a ball just grazes the strap. So, why is it OOB? Just leave it live an play the bounce.

1. No more 5 second violations.
2. The team that is fouled has a choice to shoot the foul shoots (if any) or have the ball for a throw in. (To stop the fouling at the end of the game.)

I love the ideas about only the players call time outs and getting rid of most of the uniform rules.

In games in areas that use a shot clock, eliminate the 10 second and 5 second calls. They kind of seem redundant.

So, you'd be OK with a player bear hugging the ball and standing in a corner for an entire quarter so the other team's only chance to get the ball is to commit what would probably be an intentional foul.

Like the 3 second rule, the 5 second rule was put in to solve a problem. Take it out and the problem comes back.
I like that one.

That's not how it works in the NBA. Whoever wins the tip gets the ball to start the first (obviously) and fourth quarters and the other team gets the ball to start the second and third, not based on home or visitor at all.

I'd like the NBA to get rid of the 5 second back to the basket rule, if they want to add a 5 second count then bring up the NFHS and NCAA rule.

NCAA maybe go 10 minute quarters and get rid of one TV timeout per half. Instead of 4 per half, one at 16, 12, 8, and 4 minutes, you would drop to one at the 5 minute mark of each quarter plus the quarter break, so 3 total per half.

NFHS maybe implement a shot clock nationally. In a perfect world it would be consistent with the NCAA clocks, so 35 seconds for boys and 30 for girls.

1) Only players can request a time out.

2) Closely guarded only if holding the ball.

That is already the current NFHS interpretation of the rule, although the text in the book does not read that way.

Why should the NBA get rid of the back to the basket rule? It serves its purpose perfectly. And with a 24 second shot clock, the need for a closely guarded count is not needed. Hell, it's barely needed in the college game.

Somewhere (UNC's) Phil Ford is smiling at this one...and prob Dean too.

When a foul is called, the offender must raise arm/hand or it's a technical foul. :D

That is where the defense tries to trap the ball and by far most of the time when there is a trap in the corner it does not result in a 5 second violation. But given that the offense might perfect this stall tactic, I would go with the idea of a 5 second count only when holding the ball.

coaching box
 

Get rid of it...before anyone gives me a +1 by get rid of it, I mean get rid of the restriction where they can stand...at least on their own side of midcourt....let them run from endline to mid court....I have never called a T for the coach being "out of the box" if they get T'd up it is for their behavior not their location on the court...I see a few who want to not allow coaches to call timeout because they don't want to watch to see whether they want one or not...for crying out loud looking to see where a coach is standing is even more ridiculous....

stepping off of soap box now...

It doesn't result in a 5 second violation because the offense knows they need to get out of it some way. But if they have no reason to get out of it, they wont. 5 seconds holding might do the trick, but you really can't get rid of it entirely.

Although I understand where you are coming from, would you really want to put that kind of potential pressure squarely on the shoulders of a 17 year old kid? :rolleyes:

The only rule that must be changed. Dumb rule to give coaches this opportunity.

Peace

The pressure of what? Mirroring his coach's timeout request?

They handled it for decades just fine until the rule was changed to allow coaches to request the timeouts.

Still don't see the issue with allowing coaches to ask for timeout

The problem is not them asking for a timeout, the problem is the fact they do not understand that we are not paying attention to them. Then again I also remember a time when only players could request the timeouts and somehow the players made the request just fine. I have been involved or seen too many issues come up because the coach thinks we are somehow obligated to pay attention to them. When you have a rule that has to constantly remind people that never pick up a rulebook or watch a rules video on the fact that the officials are not paying attention to them and have other duties, it is time to change the rule back to what it once was.

Peace

What Rut said.

We hear 99% of them just fine, but occasionally you get the coach with a soft voice, or you have a loud gym, or the action is too tense to glance at the coach to verify, or you tuned the coach out after he asked for "over the reaching moving screen you gotta call something" for the fourth time, and the coach spends half the timeout griping about how long it took you to grant the TO.

Kids are simply relaying what the barking coach wants. Well within their abilities as far as I'm concerned.

Somehow they did this long before the rule changed.

Peace

Amen to all that! We had a middle school tournament here about a month ago and one of the star guards was named Tyman! What a giant pain, coach must've said his name about every trip down the floor. Going to be a long four years once he hits high school!

Not sure why a rule should be changed if we hear them fine 99 percent of the time. 2/3 of those situations are on the coach for not being loud enough/signaling a TO along with his verbal request, so I'm not going to feel bad about those situations. The 3rd is a simply byproduct of doing our duties...a la paying attention to what's on the court. Coach will just have to accept that and I'd have no problem telling him/her as much if he/she tries to make a bid deal of it.

Seriously though, the overwhelming amount of timeouts granted via coach's request are easy enough to grant and come at predictable enough times that it isn't an issue...at least from what I've noticed.

In FIBA the coach or assistant coach only can request a timeout through the scorer which is only granted during a deadball. It forces the players to decide the game, not the coaches.

Billy:

I am good but not that good, :D I am working on my First Post. I am going through this thread post by post and writing my responses.

MTD, Sr.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:p

MTD, Sr.

Where do I begin? I apologize for the long post.
 

I do not have a problem with allowing this because the rules are pretty clear: To commit a travel violation, one must have Player Control of the ball.


I will go you one better, eliminate the Alternate Possession (an abomination upon the game) Rule and go back to using a Jump Ball to put the ball back into play. (Billy, I know, just shut up, but like Junior and Andy, just let an old man ramble, :D.)

But really, I do not see the problem with how the rule is now.


How is this not different from the rule now?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I like this rule change. There was a time when this rule was necessary but with today's motion offense, if one is camping in the paint he is easy to defend and really isn't helping his team.


A number posters have talked about changes to the Correctable Error Rule. I have no problem with the rule except I would delete the following from the rule (NFHS R2-S8-A6 and NCAA R2-S12-A5): "and there has been no change of team possession since the error was made, in which case play shall resume as after any free-throw attempt(s)." and "and there has been no change of team possession since the error was made. In that case, play shall resume as after any normal free throw."


The current NFHS and NCAA rule has been the women's college rule since before the 1974-75 school year (NAGWS Rules which was an adaptation of the FIBA Rules which is still the same now). The NFHS and NCAA Men's adopted the NCAA Women's Rule (which we have now in the early 1990's). Therefore I have officiated 39 years under the current rule and approximately twenty years under the rule that LoudWhistle would readopt. I really do not care which rule we use.


You are preaching to the choir.


You beat me to my earlier comment.


I like this man's thinking. I would get rid of the restricted are in the NBA/WNBA too. I would get rid of the shot clock every where.


I like it.


There have been a number of posts about the NFHS and NCAA Closely Guarded Rule. My preference is to adopt the NCAA Women's and FIBA Rule which is only while holding the ball anywhere on the court. BUT, don't get your knickers in a bunch. There is no. ten second backcourt in NCAA Women's (FIBA used to be like that but know it has the NBA/WNBA eight second rule in the backcourt.), so the rule would apply only in the frontcourt for NFHS and NCAA Men's Rules.

That's all for now. Have a wonderful time of last minute Christmas shopping everybody.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. Billy, the surgery went fine. I probably could have officiated with Mark, Jr., this past Thursday, but his back needed a rest, :D.

Like.

Why Does That Crazy Old Man Like Jump Balls So Much ???
 

Great news. Now, can they fix your "carpal tunnel vision" regarding the alternating possession arrow?

It is a well known fact that I do not like the AP Rule and Billy and I have fun with our positions. That said, I would never (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirley), if I were a member of the NFHS or NCAA Rules Committee propose a rule removing the AP Rule from the Rules Book, nor would I vote for such a change if someone proposed such a change (unless I know that the rule change would be approved by at least a 95% yes vote). Why? While I do not believe it was a rules change that needed to be made, and while we have resurrected old rules (i.e., not shooting free throws for all TC fouls, yes, read the rules from "The Ancient Days") I am getting too old (and lazy, heck I am too lazy to toss the ball just once a game or chop in the clock to star the game as the U1) to have to toss the ball more than once a game, :D.

So I will continue to denounce the AP Rule as an abomination upon the game and Billy will tell this bald old geezer to be quiet, :D. And everybody will have a good laugh.

MTD, Sr.

We've got a few coaches that run a play called "Five out." :eek: Talk about Flinchy McFlincher every time they run it...

My two cents.
 

I think the NCAA rewriting of the TF rules and the Flagrant Fouls 1 and 2 are just plain stupid and overly officious. All I can say is that just don't get me started and I would vote to rewind the clock at least ten years.

MTD, Sr.