Resumption of Play Fiasco
 

Curious for ideas as to how this could have been prevented, or what other's may have done differently...

Girl's varsity team has been repeatedly slow in leaving the huddle, in spite of "encouragement" by all three of us to be ready on the second horn. I personally spoke to one of the assistant's and asked him to help us get the team on the floor so play could begin on the second horn, but it didn't help.

At the end of a third quarter time out, I said into the huddle, "let's go...we will start without you". This team is the defensive team and doesn't respond, so I motion across the floor to my partner administering the throw in to put the ball in play. After the opposing team makes the inbound pass, they realize what is going on and finally respond...with six players!

There was some discussion then about how the technical foul should be charged. Seemed pretty simple to me...10.1.6 says it is a team technical foul to have six players participating simulataneously. One of my partners, while not disagreeing with that also argued that since there 5 players in the game legally prior to the time-out, the technical should be charged to the substitue that didn't report. We went with the team technical because a)10.1.6 is very specific and b) because I had very little confidence the table could tell us which one was not supposed to be in the game.

Administrative technical (six players).

Hopefully the lesson was learned: get out of the huddle on time and we'll help you count!

I agree with the team T.

As a general statement (with excpetions, of course) if you're going to put the ball down, try to do so when the delaying team is on offense.

I echo Bob's statement that you should try to make your point when the slow guys are on offense next time.

That said - your T goes to the team, by rule.

Different sport - had something similar. My first season of football, perhaps the 3rd or 4th week in, 7th or 8th grade game with a crew of just newbies like me (none of us knew the little rules that rarely crop up yet). Team simply WOULD NOT come out of a particular time out. Eventually flagged them for delay (even they were the defense). Walked it off and they STILL wouldn't come out. Eventually hit them for 5 more (at this point, the crowd's making noise - equally at us and their own coach). STILL would not come out.

So we let the offense run a play. That got the point across.

I thought teams had use of all 30/60 seconds of time out length. It seems you are expecting them to break huddle at first horn and be on court ready to inbound "so play can begin on 2nd horn".

A couple of words based on my experience. 1. Asst. Coaches are rarely useful at resolving this situation. I mean, would you interrupt your boss at work if his speech is running long in a staff meeting? 2. As you saw, as soon as you put the ball down, this fixed the issue. 3. I would make sure that you are waiting until both teams are at their benches before reporting the time out and that the warning horns are being hit at the right time. If all of this is good then putting the ball down should get them back in line!

They can use as much as they want, but (by rule) play resumes at the second horn.

Exactly how it's administered will vary by area.

FWIW, along with my usual jabber about first horn, second horn blah blah blah, I add "White/Black is on the floor and ready, bring 'em out" or some variation of that. Usually works pretty well.

The last two years I've been hitting my whistle twice and being very vocal ("Lets go men" or "Here we go men") and haven't had any problems (knock on wood).

You say "by rule" but I guess it depends on your definition of "play"...if you mean ready to inbound or break huddle? I still feel play does NOT resume at second horn...TO is over at 2nd horn. I'm unable to find a rule that says a team must be ready to inbound at the sounding of the 2nd horn.

When the timeout is over, the official puts the ball in play. When's the timeout over?

The rule says nothing about the team being allowed to stay in their huddle until the second horn. It says nothing about allowing the team to come out after the second horn and the official waiting for them to do so. So where are YOU getting this?

BTW, this is not one of those things that personally bothers me. If they break on the second horn, fine -- I'm happy to give both teams a few extra seconds. But by rule, the timeout ends and play resumes on that second horn.

My thoughts EXACTLY. Doing it this way only, potentially, causes the "slow" team to lose possession of the ball.

If you do it when the "slow" team is on defense, you're gifting 2 points to the opposition. ROP doesn't need to be that severe of a penalty.....

What if the team only does it when they will be on defense following time-outs? Coaches (especially at the NCAA level) are smart enough to figure this out.

NCAA has a DOG warning for this.

If they delay after that, well ....

I absolutely agree. As long as they are making progress towards getting back on the floor at the second horn, I have no issue. That is the accepted practice here. In last night's situation that was not the case. We had instances where 10-15 seconds after the second horn, this team was still not showing any signs of wrapping it up. At that point, it isn't fair to the team that is abiding by the general requirement to be ready to resume play at the second horn.

A Coupla Things to Try, Maybe
 

Two methods, based on experimentation in this area, have improved things appreciably:

1) Brief mention in pregame with coaches: "Have your players ready to come out on the first horn, we'd like to make the ball live on the second." When this is stated, they are better at it than when this is not stated.

2) When officials go the huddle and say "First Horn", a whistle from each after saying that seems also to bring 'em out better prior to the second horn. When we've done it, it's better. When we don't, it isn't.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Your results may vary.

10 - 15 seconds? Good grief. Was it this coach's first game ever???

1) Sounds like he was doing it a lot - hit them on offense just once, and that should fix it. A lost possession is a more fair penalty than a free 2 pts for the other team.

2) That said ... 10-15 seconds? I probably would have put the ball in play for the other team as well --- after maybe the 2nd offense even. That's a LONG time.

As others have said, make your point when the team delaying is on offense. One lost possession is all it takes and both coaches will take note.

I agree, it doesnt bother me that much and personally after many years of doing this have always thought if teams are breaking huddle on 2nd horn that was the norm. You say the rule says nothing about being allowed to stay in huddle until the second horn? 5-11-2 only says "a warning signal for teams to prepare to resume play is sounded with 15 seconds remaining" ...the words "prepare to resume" and "remaining" being my point here. I say they get all the 60 seconds to talk to their team and then break huddle and head to inbounds location or wherever on court they need to be. I was only asking a previous poster who seemed to be putting the ball down at the second horn. Clearly, I see no rule for that, nor have I ever seen that happen.

The length of the timeout varies as much on the front end as it does on the back. Some officials will follow the team to the edge of the huddle and spend 10 seconds asking "Full or 30?" About the only significant thing I tell coaches in pregame is let me see a 30 signal or it will be a full. Then, if you get lucky and have a timer who actually starts in a timely fashion and measures the length of the timeout you are all right.

SOme areas hear the horn, count to 2 (or so), blow the whistle and put the ball on the floor.

Some areas hear the horn, go back in, clap their hands, wait a while, and then the teams come out.

Most are somewhere inbetween. You don't want to be (too much) different from the norm in your area.

That's way too long. If the first offense is that excessive, I'm putting the ball down.

And I can guarantee that if a team is coming out 10-15 seconds after the horn, I'm getting 5-10 seconds of grief from the other coach.

"Prepare to resume" means, to many, that they should be getting in position on that warning horn. If the second horn meant they should start breaking the huddle then, there's no reason for the first horn, is there?

They need to at least be breaking the huddle at the second horn.

When going to ROP I prefer to hit them when their either on offense, or defending a backcourt throw in during the first half. "Prefer" does not mean require, though.